Bedtime for Democracy

Re: Bedtime for Democracy

I've been watching the Schiavo case unfold like the rest of you and have tried seeing this as objectively as possible. Like most of you.

And while I do see both sides there is one thing we all must keep in mind and stay vigilant about...

Who decides who lives or dies...?


Many of you MAY remember a girl named Karen Ann Quinlan whose case was similar to the Schiavo case. (Back in the 70's)

http://medicine.creighton.edu/idc135/2004/...oup2a/Intro.htm

Again, the media circus followed and questions were raised in what to do regarding this type of situation. As it turned out, the father was given custody and he placed her in a nursing home where she was looked after until her death.

The point I'm trying to make is that I see the Govt. encroaching closer and closer on my personal business and soon none of us won't have any free will left, because they (Meaning the Govt.) will decide who lives or dies.

This is also another crushing blow to persons with disabilities, a segment of society that has seen more slaps in the face by this administration than any other in recent memory.

This case just seems- to me - to be the state of our nation personified-
America's living on a feeding tube where the State decides who lives or dies. Would you want the State to make that decision...? Whether you live or die?
 
Re: Bedtime for Democracy

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"pauli\")</div>
It seems amazing to me that we jump through twenty different hoops to prevent the premature death of a convicted murderer, but we are so quick and ready to starve an innocent woman to death.

[/b]
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Those are not hoops, the death is not premature, and this is a false analogy.

The main thing that makes it an apples&organges situation is that, in the case of the death penalty, it is the government officially killing a person-- doing it, in fact, in your name. That's the State government, too, by the way.

In the case of Schiavo, and any others like it, it is an individual (or her guardian or proxy) choosing to die and the government trying to prevent it. That's the federal government.

The federal government has no business forcing people to make the choice either way between life or death under the circumstances-- it can, of course, force the issue on both a State and federal level, in certain cases of homicide, suicide, and assisted suicide.

Even in a clear case of State-authorized "death with dignity," as in Oregon, the federal government attempts to step in and bully everybody around to do what Bush wants.

It is more difficult to execute a convict; you always want it to be as difficult as possible for the government on any level to officially kill anybody-- for what should be obvious reasons. Some people live in a country, perhaps, in which the government can always be trusted to make the right decisions about such things.

I do not, and neither do you.


And, for those who will argue that it hasn't been a quick process consider that by the time a death row inmate has gone through their appeals, a twenty plus - maybe even thirty - year amount of time will have passed. Terri has had what? 10 years? 15?
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The amount of time consumed, as the amount of money, is apparently of no consequence when an attempt is being made to thwart the urge of the authorities to punish individuals. The urge is huge, part of the irrational and expensive urge to put as many people into prison for as long a time as possible. But you cannot judge the morality of the process in either Schiavo's or a death penalty case on the basis of time, even on the time travel forum.

You are also forgetting the people who have been convicted and serve for decades before being freed on new evidence or new science; and the great number of those who haven't been.


...it might be interesting to have Michael Shiavo take the MMPI - a diagnostic tool for measuring psychological disturbance. He comes across to me as a sociopath. We should at least rule out any questions as to his character.
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If I'm not mistaken, that test was first designed by the army to discover whether recruits might be "latent homosexuals," i.e., hidden gays. It asks, among other things, whether or not you prefer to paint watercolors instead of hunting wild boar.

Even a sociopath can be given the right and power to terminate a patient's life if the circumstances are otherwise kosher.
 
Re: Bedtime for Democracy

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Time Rider\")</div>
I've been watching the Schiavo case unfold like the rest of you and have tried seeing this as objectively as possible. Like most of you.

And while I do see both sides there is one thing we all must keep in mind and stay vigilant about...

Who decides who lives or dies...?


Many of you MAY remember a girl named Karen Ann Quinlan whose case was similar to the Schiavo case. (Back in the 70's)

http://medicine.creighton.edu/idc135/2004/...oup2a/Intro.htm

Again, the media circus followed and questions were raised in what to do regarding this type of situation. As it turned out, the father was given custody and he placed her in a nursing home where she was looked after until her death.

The point I'm trying to make is that I see the Govt. encroaching closer and closer on my personal business and soon none of us won't have any free will left, because they (Meaning the Govt.) will decide who lives or dies.

This is also another crushing blow to persons with disabilities, a segment of society that has seen more slaps in the face by this administration than any other in recent memory. ?

This case just seems- to me - to be the state of our nation personified- ?
America's living on a feeding tube where the State decides who lives or dies. Would you want the State to make that decision...? ?Whether you live or die?[/b]
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What an excellent and thought-provoking post Time Rider. Welcome to the forums. I look forward to hearing more from you!

Z-
 
Re: Bedtime for Democracy

What an excellent and thought-provoking post Time Rider. Welcome to the forums. I look forward to hearing more from you!
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Ahhhhh shucks :blush:, thanx Z--- This is a very thought provoking group.

And Paul's latest post gets a
icon_rate_10.gif
from me.
 
Re: Bedtime for Democracy

If I'm not mistaken, that test was first designed by the army to discover whether recruits might be \"latent homosexuals,\" i.e., hidden gays. It asks, among other things, whether or not you prefer to paint watercolors instead of hunting wild boar.
Click to expand...
Actually, I think that question is intended to seperate sane from completely out of your mind, not gay from streight. Just about any activity could be put in place of the watercolors and would be the correct answer.
 
Re: Bedtime for Democracy

Unless of course you were a artist that prefers the soft pastel tones that magicly blend on a varigated natural paper surface blending the interplay of mysteriously blended colors which mingle playfully from the tangible to the semi-impressionistic.
 
Re: Bedtime for Democracy

Unless of course you were a artist that prefers the soft pastel tones that magicly blend on a varigated natural paper surface blending the interplay of mysteriously blended colors which mingle playfully from the tangible to the semi-impressionistic.
__________________
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Well, I can try. I'd rather do that than pick a fight with a four legged tank with an attitude.
 
Re: Bedtime for Democracy

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Paul J. Lyon\")</div>
If I'm not mistaken, that test was first designed by the army to discover whether recruits might be \"latent homosexuals,\" i.e., hidden gays. It asks, among other things, whether or not you prefer to paint watercolors instead of hunting wild boar.

[/b]
Click to expand...

MMPI-1 and MMPI-2 scores are used to Assess Individual Personality and Psycopathology. MMPI-1 (once utilised by the US Army on Prisoners I understand) is a Clinical Diagnostic Tool that can identify Hostility Potential (Ho Scale) in an individual, amongst other things. MMPI-2 (Primary Adolescent Test) is used to divine Addiction Potentials (Scale AAS and APS) in younger patients.

Mr Schiavo would undoubtedly fail the MMPI-1 tests.

As far as I am aware, you could not dweome latent homosexuality... whatever that may be ??? ;) As I understand it, you either are, or are not, irrespective of how much confusion surrounds the issue.

As an aside, the higher your MMPI score (T greater than 70) the better your immune system functions and the higher the production levels of NK (Natural Killer) cells are in the body.
 

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