Consciousness

seems we need a little clearity here are we talking conciousness as in awake, or not out cold????? ya know....is he concious and breathing,, or are we talking coherant or aware of his suroundings able to answer simple questions.....how old are you, where do you live.....or are we talking the ability to reason/self determanation...I will go that way,I like icecream?????
ya know I think there for I am,,, while they are all connected.. they are all quite diffrent, and each part of the same life.
while all living animals have some of these... we humans are alone in the reasoning department. I don't think a dog ever considered the exsistance of GOD , or where it will be in ten years.... in short I would say we humans are alone in that respect
 
whats more sad in my generation and in our society, i don't ponder a god nor do i even give a sh*! where I'm at in 10 years as far as i'm concerned i'll be dead by then from something i did or some stunt i pulled to get myself killed, well any how, what i'm getting at, its sad because i don't care about any or this and since i don't, iam a "faithless nobody and a loser that doesn't care about my future." i'm just fine by my own and i'm not nor will i ever be hurting for anything them a whole should think i need to have, today's society is like group-think on a grand scale!
 
kcwildman said:
seems we need a little clearity here are we talking conciousness as in awake, or not out cold????? ya know....is he concious and breathing,, or are we talking coherant or aware of his suroundings able to answer simple questions.....how old are you, where do you live.....or are we talking the ability to reason/self determanation...I will go that way,I like icecream?????
ya know I think there for I am,,, while they are all connected.. they are all quite diffrent, and each part of the same life.
while all living animals have some of these... we humans are alone in the reasoning department. I don't think a dog ever considered the exsistance of GOD , or where it will be in ten years.... in short I would say we humans are alone in that respect
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Not necessarily. Chimps can reason as they do problem solve. Chimps have a sense of place and community and they do understand the Laws of their existence. Do they look at the Moon and try to imagine the mind of God? I don't know, but Man once did and he was no brighter than a chimp when he did so.Within their own culture, they are cognitive, coherent, cohesive and have self determination.

Ants have demonstrated their capacity to reason. You can tell this from the architecture of their living places. We know Ants have a Hivemind, is that the type of mind that can give them self determination? They seem to have their place in the cosmos pretty well sussed.

Or, are you saying that Man is alone in this simply because he can articulate man-made values? It isn't a cogent argument to say that simply because Man can articulate the architecture of his mind that he has consciousness above and beyond any other creature. Just because Dolphins don't build Nuclear weapons and then wrestle with the morality of their construction doesn't mean that they aren't conscious, or in possession of consciousness. In fact I would argue that a greater state of consciousness exists within any intelligent animal that doesn't try to destroy the world in which it lives. Dolphins may well have cogitated all the great human questions, delved into the quantum mysteries of the cosmos and then decided to have a good game of chase-the-herring instead as that offered pleasures beyond the cerebral.

It is arrogant beyond compare that Man judges by his standards. Even now the Dolphins may be visiting other worlds via means we can barely fathom and never detect. We don't know for a fact that they aren't. We just assume that they don't as we are their intellectual superiors.
 
point well made as always Grayson and howdy there guy been a while ;) glad to see ya still come round for a look see. I just got back myself. kinda missed the place like alot.
maybe some day when we learn to speak with the animals we will know what they know and don't tell us
 
atlanticantic10 said:
whats more sad in my generation and in our society, i don't ponder a god nor do i even give a sh*! where I'm at in 10 years as far as i'm concerned i'll be dead by then from something i did or some stunt i pulled to get myself killed...
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An attitude I once held when I was young like you.

Take my advice. Think what you want about how long you might live but plan for the worst case scenario (which would be living a very long time.)

Harte
 
kcwildman said:
point well made as always Grayson and howdy there guy been a while ;) glad to see ya still come round for a look see. I just got back myself. kinda missed the place like alot.
maybe some day when we learn to speak with the animals we will know what they know and don't tell us
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Howdy to you too KC.

I do visit at least 3 times a week. I don't post often as I am not that interested in paranormal subjects as such and if I post a flippant reply to any given subject I get shouted at by Num7 :). That said, he wants a clean board and I have no desire to run him up the wrong way so I limit my replies to what adds to a thread and not detracts from it.
 
Grayson said:
Not necessarily. Chimps can reason as they do problem solve. Chimps have a sense of place and community and they do understand the Laws of their existence. Do they look at the Moon and try to imagine the mind of God? I don't know, but Man once did and he was no brighter than a chimp when he did so.Within their own culture, they are cognitive, coherent, cohesive and have self determination.

Ants have demonstrated their capacity to reason. You can tell this from the architecture of their living places. We know Ants have a Hivemind, is that the type of mind that can give them self determination? They seem to have their place in the cosmos pretty well sussed.

Or, are you saying that Man is alone in this simply because he can articulate man-made values? It isn't a cogent argument to say that simply because Man can articulate the architecture of his mind that he has consciousness above and beyond any other creature. Just because Dolphins don't build Nuclear weapons and then wrestle with the morality of their construction doesn't mean that they aren't conscious, or in possession of consciousness. In fact I would argue that a greater state of consciousness exists within any intelligent animal that doesn't try to destroy the world in which it lives. Dolphins may well have cogitated all the great human questions, delved into the quantum mysteries of the cosmos and then decided to have a good game of chase-the-herring instead as that offered pleasures beyond the cerebral.

It is arrogant beyond compare that Man judges by his standards. Even now the Dolphins may be visiting other worlds via means we can barely fathom and never detect. We don't know for a fact that they aren't. We just assume that they don't as we are their intellectual superiors.
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after some more thought on this.. I remembered that even the BIBLE supports the idea that all animals have most if not all the same abilitys as humans there are several reffs. to it
Eve spoke with the serpant argueing about the comands of GOD(genises 1.)
Balaam the prophet spoke with his donkey about the danger ahead of him(numbers 22.)
just to mention a couple.. both times the animal in question, both ask questions, and answered back when ask questions...
other reffs.. are made so as to compare types of animals and there being peoples one you mentioned the ants,another was coneys(rabbits)
so I must agree we don't realy know nothin much about the animals we share this mudball with:confused: now I realy do wonder what a cow is thinking when they stay in the field waiting to become dinner??????
 
I couldn't agree with you more. Consciousness is not exclusively a human thing. It is a human word for a condition of being that we struggle to determine to our satisfaction. If 'I think therefore I am' is the absolute measure of this state then we must ascribe consciousness to Dolphins, Gorillas, Elephants and Chimps at the very least as we know that they all think. We can measure this by their capacity to problem solve, to co-operate and by their familial interactions. Dolphins and Chimps are quite possibly capable of acts of self determination that have been regarded as the exclusive domain of man. It beggars belief that we do not see these animals for what they are, sentient and self aware.

We have come an extremely long way this last 10,000 years. Who is to say that if man were reduced to a shadow of his current population by some virus that in 10,000 years we may be the second or third most important creature on the planet. I personally think that Dolphins'd do a better job as guardians of our world.

Cognitive thought, the capacity to determine to think is not exclusive to our brains. We just got there faster than anyone else and made the most of our opposable thumbs. God help us when the Dolphins break out the waldo's.
 

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