Fringe Archaeology or Hidden Truth?

[Timebender]

Re: Fringe Archaeology or Hidden Truth?

Shane,
I found your point to be both brilliant and self explanatory. The answers are there for all who elect to see them albeit such persons must be free of bias.
TB

 

[Harte]

Re: Fringe Archaeology or Hidden Truth?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"shane\")</div>

Gilgamesh and Genisis are regarded as indicators of the first modern, literate society. Both works, however, pay homage to civilizations long before the time of the writers who were much more advanced. Notice the refferences in Gilgamesh to an ancient city that became the foundation of the writers' own city. Notice the refferences in Genesis to a pre-flood society with a modern calendar, versed in knowledge of agriculture, music and metallurgy. The clues are there for all of you. Sadly, I can do little more than point them out.[/b]

Shane,
I don't think anyone here (or in the field of archaeology) would dispute that there existed civilizations more ancient than that which produced the Gilgamesh epic (which predates the writing of Genesis by considerable years.) However, there is no reason from the reading of the epic or from archaeological discoveries to believe that these early societies were more advanced than the society that wrote the Gilgamesh epic.

Agriculture, music "calendars" and metallurgy are known by mainstream science to predate any written records we have found. So does the domestication of animals. And of course, there are many monolithic structures that are though to predate any societies we know about.

Nothing in the passages you quoted indicates any advanced civilization. There may exist clues, but they are not clear and they are subject to interpretation. Of course, any bias toward some ancient advanced society will result in interpreting the clues toward that direction. And vice-versa. I prefer to remain neutral on the subject until some actual evidence comes to light. Sadly I can only point out the complete and utter lack of evidence for any advanced ancient civilization.

Harte

 

[shane]

Re: Fringe Archaeology or Hidden Truth?

I only wish that I could give you further evidence at this time, but such is not my decision to make. I can only suggest that you search for the evidence yourself. There is much more to be found, and you do not have far to look.

 

[ironside100]

Re: Fringe Archaeology or Hidden Truth?

The use of the word giant must also be taken into context of the period. "Giant" could be a very tall or strong person compared to the physical attributes of the people at the time. Diet, climate, disease and population density all have an effect on the average height of people. These so called giants may have not been as tall when compared with modern men.

The use of the word giant has also changed and could mean many different things. Giant may be a reference to character or will power or political strength. I am more inclined to Harte's way of thinking here.

 

[Harte]

Re: Fringe Archaeology or Hidden Truth?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"shane\")</div>

I only wish that I could give you further evidence at this time, but such is not my decision to make. I can only suggest that you search for the evidence yourself. There is much more to be found, and you do not have far to look.[/b]

Shane,

I doubt very much that you could come up with any evidence that I have not at least heard of, if not looked into. As I said, clues may exist out there, but any that have been discovered are not clear and are subject to interpretation.

Harte

 

[StarLord]

Re: Fringe Archaeology or Hidden Truth?

Harte

Then how do you view Vimanas? That information in Sanscrit is very ancient. Or do you consider them a Hoax?

 

[shane]

Re: Fringe Archaeology or Hidden Truth?

Harte, I informed you previously that I could divulge no further evidence to you at this time. Why you chose to reiterate this fact in your previous post is beyond my understanding. While I have not handed you freely the proof you demand from the universe, I have done my best to show you the direction in which that proof lies. If that did not help you, I am sincerely sorry, for the failure is my own. Perhaps, though, the proof you seek lies no further away than your own mind.

 

[Harte]

Re: Fringe Archaeology or Hidden Truth?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"shane\")</div>

Harte, I informed you previously that I could divulge no further evidence to you at this time. Why you chose to reiterate this fact in your previous post is beyond my understanding. While I have not handed you freely the proof you demand from the universe, I have done my best to show you the direction in which that proof lies. If that did not help you, I am sincerely sorry, for the failure is my own. Perhaps, though, the proof you seek lies no further away than your own mind.[/b]

Shane,
You quote a couple of pieces of Gilgamesh and the Bible and call that "showing" me the way? You are gonna have to do much better than that. The way you have shown me is up a blind alley that I inspected every square inch of in the 1970's.

I agree with you that you can "divulge no further evidence," however. Considering you have yet to "divulge" any "evidence", the fact that you have no further "evidence" to "divulge" is embarassingly apparent.

Harte

 

[Harte]

Re: Fringe Archaeology or Hidden Truth?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"StarLord\")</div>

Harte

Then how do you view Vimanas? That information in Sanscrit is very ancient. Or do you consider them a Hoax?[/b]

Starlord,
I guess from some of my previous posts, it might seem like I disbelieve even the existence of any ancient civilizations. Let me say here that I find the Vimanas to be a very interesting collection of mythological stories.

As you know, there have been many attempts to show that aliens visited Earth in ancient times, not the least of which is the torturing of the Bible scriptures to wring UFO's and reptilian overlords out of Genesis and other O.T. books. In the Vimanas we have no need for such machinations. The Vimanas describe flying machines piloted by gods and humans, huge aerial battles fought using these machines, descriptions of what could only be called advanced weaponry and creatures of such horrific countenance that they must be described as either aliens or demons.

The Vimanas are no hoax, they are actual ancient sanskrit writings that were translated long ago without much disagreement on what they say, at least in terms of whether they were correctly translated. As such I find them extremely interesting. But there exist many writings discovered that come from ancient civilizations and many contain stories of the gods of ancient men and their exploits. Why not ask about Odin, Zeus or Ba'al? Because the Vimanas have been recently brought into the limelight of the pseudohistory movement by the book "Forbidden Archaeology" by Michael Cremo.

Cremo, like all the other pseudohistorians, takes a few odd discoveries, adds a liberal dose of speculation and a healthy amount of re-arrangement (and even misrepresentation) of the facts in order to show that the Hindus are right, Man has been on Earth for millions of years. Does this argument sound familiar? Substitute Evangelical for Hindu. I can't provide any link right now, but I am certain that I read somewhere that Cremo and his co-author (I forget the name) were financed in their research by some Hindu organization that tries to advance that religion and it's take on reality. As for this argument about Cremo et al., I do have some links that I think lead to this conclusion if you want them, but I realize that this is not the crux of your posted question.

So, in short, no I do not think the Vimanas are a hoax. I do think they are part of the mythology of Hinduism. The Vimanas, Plato's "Dialogues", Genesis, Homer, Norse Epics, Fairy tales, all contain fantastic ideas and places about which there exists absolutely no evidence, other than the stories themselves of course.

Cremo, VanDaniken, Sitchen, Hancock, Velikovski, and the rest of the pseudohistorians could be right. But absolutely not one shred of evidence exists that would indicate so. I truly wish that such evidence would be uncovered and presented in my lifetime, though I doubt that it will. I once was almost convinced by the pseudohistorians myself. Enough so to make me look into these things. I guess I looked too deep. It is now one of my fondest desires that my current thinking on ancient civilizations be shown to be wrong, but as I said, I doubt it will happen.

Harte

 

[gl100]

Re: Fringe Archaeology or Hidden Truth?

Harte,

According to Cremo, he and his partner are members of the Bhaktivedanta Institute which is supposedly the scientific research Branch of the International Society for Krishna consciousness.

http://www.mcremo.com/bi.html

As you say, the vimanas are a very interesting collection of stories and the mythology is intriguing to say the least. Within the texts there may indeed be glimpses into ancient technology. The problem is that much of what is written about these texts is framed within current 20th century interpretations provided by self-promoting pseudo-researchers such as Cremo and Van Daniken. I have also noticed that there is some doubt as to the antiquity and authenticity of some of the manuscripts. Have you come across any sites that discuss the manuscripts in their proper context and without all of the hype and misinformation associated with the ?Atlantis is rising on the shoulders of a crystal skulled Elohin channeling lizard god? crowd?