Angelface239
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I am not sure i would watch that eiter because god and the devil are completly diffrent people from eacg their is no way they can be the same only Jesús christ can be God.
God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?
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Papirika
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Hello, I do not agree with him but I think you kinda misudestood what he is saying. He is not saying that god is the devil but that god has both a good and an evil nature at the same time. Like the concept of evil and not like Lucifer.
Angelface239
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Okay.
Gnostic Christian
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Hi again ! Continuing our disscussion here <3
For those that didn't saw our disscussion on deviantart: I do agree with his vision that evil is necessary and even good for god's plan of the ultimate peace. But I do not believe that god created it, instead that evil started to exist as a consequence of the creation of god. I also do not agree with his vision of a dual god. Besides that we are just having a friendly and helth disscussion about religion, and respecting each other's point of view.
Nice to see you here. This quote function is handy.
Let me fix your dual god statement.
In a dualistic universe, all have dual natures. Not dual gods. A small point given for accuracy.
What is your church or religion? Is it a universalist one with a heaven but no hell like my own Gnostic Christianity?
If your god is only good, he could not be the creator as evil exists and it had to come out of god. Yours is not the Christian god as his genocide of man was definitely evil. I asked who your god was above and will wait for your answer.
Do you see nature as only good?
I see it as mostly good, even though it has what we would call an evil component.
We are evolving creatures and most both compete and cooperate. When we cooperate, all is well. When we compete as we must to insure our survival, we create losers to those competitions who would feel that evil has befallen them. This is the source of all human to human evil. We must do it though or go extinct. A god, if he created us would thus also have a dual nature. It also would be mostly good and not the evil bastard that Yahweh is shown to be.
You are starting to sound quite Christian so I will wait to see who your god is.
Meanwhile, on Jesus dying for you.
It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place.
You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.
It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.
You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.
Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh.
I will reply to this here then stop till you reply to see if you are understanding my points at all. I do not want to do a TLDR.
Try to isolate the different issues in their own thread or post otherwise it gets too hard to talk to each issue. I should have perhaps done that myself.
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Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?
Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.
Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.
The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.
If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?
Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?
Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?
I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.
Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.
What is your choice of those two options?
Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.
I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.
What do you think is the truth?
Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?
Regards
DL
Gnostic Christian
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Are those the breasts of a man or a woman to you?
Do not turn Eve's head or you might think she was doing something just before looking up.
That aside. Why would you think Satan to be a male? Why not a female.
When looking at temptation, Satan's forte, I think that women are a lot more tempting than men.
Regards
DL
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Gnostic Christian
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I think you might be reading Gnostic as agnostic. Forgivable given that gnosis is the root word of agnostic.
Here is how one Gnostic Christian describes Gnosis.
Regards
DL
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Angelface239
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Yes he can he died on the cross. But it doesent mean that he is not always around when he is.
Gnostic Christian
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A blood sacrifice that does not stay dead is not a real sacrifice.
You do not seem to know what you should believe.
Regards
DL
Papirika
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This one Is shorter so I will go with this at first.
1 - Satan has better boobs than I do
2 - This looks morelike an artistic choice to draw him as women. If you are going to base satans gender only in art most paintings will still showing him as a male-goat thing. But as I really doubt any of these people really saw him so it's not like they could tell.
3- As I said, both his name and original words used to talk about him were masculiny. And to be honest in a male-dominated society like this no one would ever miss the chance of saying that satan was female.
4- Yes the picture was very funny. But it's also full of artistic choices.: Eve wasn't with Adam when she meet the serpent, she was alone, later she took the fruit (That by the way is neither an apple or an euphemism for sex.) to Adam so he could eat too. And also the serpent was a full serpent. By the way this doesn't look anything like the dense forest eden was supposed to be.
5- And if that angel thing was right there why didn't he do anything ? Why the hell would Adam and Eve eat the damn thing right in front of it ?
6 - So maybe the artist had an inssue with women ? Who knows.