What is your church or religion? Is it a universalist one with a heaven but no hell like my own Gnostic Christianity?
Hello again, I am a seventh day adventist. And many curches don't believe in hell, but those who do are always bad mouthing us and saying we are not real christians so most people don't know we exist.
We are christians who try to go back to the ancient christians, the ones before the roman empire. We keep the shabbat, don't eat pig meat, and the the biggest part is vegan or vegetarian. We also are against the church mixing with politics, and also believe that a girl named Ellen G. White was actually a prophet.
If your god is only good, he could not be the creator as evil exists and it had to come out of god. Yours is not the Christian god as his genocide of man was definitely evil. I asked who your god was above and will wait for your answer.
Do you see nature as only good?
I see it as mostly good, even though it has what we would call an evil component.
We are evolving creatures and most both compete and cooperate. When we cooperate, all is well. When we compete as we must to insure our survival, we create losers to those competitions who would feel that evil has befallen them. This is the source of all human to human evil. We must do it though or go extinct. A god, if he created us would thus also have a dual nature. It also would be mostly good and not the evil bastard that Yahweh is shown to be.
What I was trying to say is that evil is not something per se, but the ausence of something else. Like black is technically not a color, but the lack of any other color. So evil is not evil, but the lack of good. Not like the lack of good actions, but the lack of good itself. The concept of good,
Socrates good, the one we can't give a definition and only exists. For the abrahamic religions God is the personification of this good.
You are starting to sound quite Christian so I will wait to see who your god is.
Meanwhile, on Jesus dying for you.
It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place.
You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.
It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.
You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.
Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh.
Ok bro, I am christian, how didn't you noticed yet ? And I will probably stop talking to you after this. I tought you were really courious to see other peoples point of view and that you were a nice and respectful person, but now you are just as bad as the people who only answer saying that you will go to hell. Let's finish it them.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." -John 3:16
"“Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze. For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior…” - Isaiah 43:1-3"
Saying that God doesn't care about humanity is incorrect. Since the start he put humanity above all other creatures and lower only to himself. He didn't created humanity evil because neither Adam or Eve knew what evil was since only god had this power, because of it they didn't really had free will. But after the fall they started to have it.
The fall was something he didn't wantedto happen but at the same time knew it would, so he already prepared for sending Jesus. If you wanted to have children more than anything and them you had a son, wouldn't you love this son ? Wouldn't you give your own life to protect this son ? Maybe you not, but most parents that love their children wouldn't be even able to think and just act.
And why he needed to die ?
" For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. "
It basically means that humans only die because we are sinners. The only one who could be a sacrifice was human that had never sinned. This is why Jesus came in human form, he was god but because he was also human he could sin. If he sinned there would be no consequence for him, but humanity would be lost.
"And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and after three days rise again."- Mark 8.31
No christian just said that god died for them. Jesus said it himself. And why exactly we would not accept ? No one asked him to die for us, he did it himself. What we do is to recognize his sacrifice.
And it's not just say you are christian and you will go to heaven. You need to truly believe and change as a person. And yes he loves humanity so much he will forgive any type of sin no matter how bad it is, if you regret it and become a new person.
"Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save their life[
a] will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”"
"One of the criminals who were hanged
there was [
a]hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the [
b]Christ? Save Yourself and us!” 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed
are suffering justly, for we are receiving [
c]what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come [
d]in Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” "
" “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard.
2 And after agreeing with the workers for the standard wage, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 When it was about nine o’clock in the morning, he went out again and saw others standing around in the marketplace without work.
4 He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too, and I will give you whatever is right.’
5 So they went. When he went out again about noon and three o’clock that afternoon, he did the same thing.
6 And about five o’clock that afternoon he went out and found others standing around, and said to them, ‘Why are you standing here all day without work?’
7 They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go and work in the vineyard too.’
8 When it was evening the owner of the vineyard said to his manager, ‘Call the workers and give the pay starting with the last hired until the first.’
9 When those hired about five o’clock came, each received a full day’s pay.
10 And when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more. But each one also received the standard wage.
11 When they received it, they began to complain against the landowner,
12 saying, ‘These last fellows worked one hour, and you have made them equal to us who bore the hardship and burning heat of the day.’
13 And the landowner replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am not treating you unfairly. Didn’t you agree with me to work for the standard wage?
14 Take what is yours and go. I want to give to this last man the same as I gave to you.
15 Am I not permitted to do what I want with what belongs to me? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
16 So the last will be first, and the first last.” "
So I will end our conversation here. I am only answering the eden thing on the other comment.
