Hello 2013 (Time Traveler from 2043)

ann holt

Junior Member
Messages
66
hmm... I am depressed.
You all operate on a presumption of knowledge.
I will attempt to answer once again. Some of you seem to have missed the entirety of my being here.
I have never wanted to be believed. I have said that since the beginning. The option of belief is entirely up to you.
Please, I fail to see any contradictions in what I have said.
On the political side, I showed levels of politics. I talked about the world stage and the American stage. Wouldn't it make sense that lower stages were imitations of larger? And why is integration for the sake of analogy any proof of deceit? Samstwitch, didn't Paul use analogies of sports without deifying a sport? I may not be wording that quite right... The point is that using example I have learned from you does not in any way mean that what I am saying is false or even based upon Titor.
Nonetheless, America is currently divided into five regions, These regions are the Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, Southwest, and the West. The regions of the United States are grouped by history, traditions, economy, climate, and geography. Why would the Oligarchy change that? Wouldn't it make sense for them to use these obviously different regions? These regions aren't even from Titor, but are found commonly throughout your culture.
To restate yet again the political world of my time, there is the Oligarchy which is worldwide and is lead by a council of nine. Each one of them is the ruler of a region. These regions are subdivided. It isn't easy to destroy a cultural identity. It is far easier for a new ruler to embrace the identity of the conquered. This is the concept at work.

What was the purpose of me posting about the device again? Can anyone recall? I told Samstwitch about the true nature of the device before I gave into pressure and openly said, "correct" when someone guessed it. And I told her then that it doesn't prove my existence as a Time Traveler. The emphasis wasn't so much on the device to prove myself but on events surrounding its dawn. I also commented on how the nature of the device has such an impact on extrahuman evolution. How exactly did my story change? I said that the technology was released by Apple in my worldline, but that here in this worldline HP had the patent. I also noted that only Apple had the ability commercialize the technology efficiently. On top of that, I mentioned to Samstwitch that the latest information I could dig up said that HP had entered into a business deal with two other companies, but that those companies were unknown to me.
Although, I admit that the technology is amazing and cool and perhaps I was a bit frenzied over that.
On the other hand, every single technology I have mentioned could be linked to present day. Some of the technologies I have not mentioned, but have intended to show you all, could be traced to today. Chimera's already exist. Scientists have already solidified light. The hydrogen powered spaceship I mentioned already has its engines built. Warp drive technologies are being researched by NASA. I could have talked about any of these technologies and you could say the same. Physicists have already predicted the majority of the major inventions for the next fifty years. They were discussing tablets in the late 80's.

As for pictures, why would I disappear at the request of that? I have been hounded about them since I got to this forum. Every single time I replied that they would appear when the time was right. And the majority of my posts have actually been between 1AM and 5AM. Temporal Recon even commented about that in our email chats.

Please, I invite you to take my math and the statements surrounding it to any theoretical physicist.

I have a lot more to say to catch up on what has been said. Perhaps in a day or two.


Actually, there is no real way for you to prove you are a time traveler. Being as knowledge of the future causes alterations of it, you could not possibly give predictions to prove it. Besides, that would prove nothing more than some psychic ability. I find the whole concept of time travel to be really interesting. But that is a mute point. It totally unprovable unless one could pinpoint themselves in younger or older form and make a correct DNA match to that person.

I remember an example of that was in an anime called Steins;Gate (Based of the John Titor story, some parts more than others), where the main character sends a message back in time to win the lottery and the winning number was one off.

However another way for someone to prove they are a time traveler is to go back in time and tell their younger self something only what the TT's younger self knew.

That would prove the claim only to the younger version. And it would be a word against word thing not hard data type proof..... To prove a point, If you gave most kids 100.00 they will claim you are the king of france because they haven't quite developed the concept of manipulation yet.
 

Aevi Vegr

Junior Member
Messages
63
It's not the attempt to prove me to be a hoax that got me depressed. I am more concerned with the mystification of divergence.
It's just vector calculus. Admittedly, it's 10th dimensional vector calculus based off a dependent background. I could calculate it by hand with some great effort. Really, I wouldn't want to calculate it by hand. I learned that there is estimated to be about 10^540 worldlines that could be considered similar to my own. It's all based on the generalized theorem. There are no attractor fields, just geometry.
As for a device that has the ability to calculate divergence, it would be a large array of sensors with a very powerful computer and it could only give approximations. The method for describing the divergence might also be different. The most accurate way of describing divergence would be in relation to the central worldline. It would be very difficult to discover what is the central worldline and Humans might not even exist on it. That is absolute divergence, compared to relative divergence.
I fully believe in the possibility of 100% divergent universe. It is simply impossible to accurately call it a divergence. I am sorry for the miscommunication there, I felt that I explained it well enough. Nevertheless, I would need to expand the English Language a bit to properly describe the different types of universal polymorphism. I merely stated that it would be so far removed that it would have its own separate set of worldlines. So at 100% there is a new absolute divergence scale. I also believe that reaching such a divergence would require more than a time machine. I think it's time for me to create yet another one of my despised diagrams! I'll present it later, although it really is hard to describe multidimensional theories in 2 dimensions. The relationship between each of these divergence scales might possibly be able to be placed along another scale, which I think more appropriately could be called the universal divergence scale. Outside of that, even, might be placed the multiversal divergence scale, but I'm not sure if that term is accurate either.
Paradox, I hesitate to use your terminology. Mainly because using a planetary scale seems unwise to me. I also am not sure if describe a universe that reaches paradox as being destroyed as accurate. If there truly is a mechanism for causality, it is just as likely that in a given scenario paradoxes never happen, opposed to the scenario ending or half a dozen other possibilities.
And that brings me to an explanation as to why Paradox's trip-up is inaccurate. Knowing the mechanics is far removed from simply avoiding them. The equation shows that time travel is possible to be done in such a way as to minimize the risk of violating causality. I will quote from an earlier conversation (October 5th) with Samstwitch to explain this concept.
Have you heard the myth of Shangri La?
According to the myth, deep in the Himalayas there is a secret valley where a city exists outside of time. The city is a repository for all the knowledge of the ancient world. That is essentially what I am supposed to try to create in the Rockies. It is out of the way and attempts to be outside of the events of the world until after all the events are through. We are not attempting to change the past, but to give us 200 years to prepare for a final battle. This is how we are attempting to beat causality. If I were to go try to change the founding documents, that would be a blatant violation of causality.
There is no known mechanism for causality, but that doesn't mean causality doesn't exist. It probably exists in some form, but we don't know what that forms is and we don't know how causality functions as a limiter. Nevertheless, the proposition of causality is more than enough to try to avoid it. Imagine what a paradoxical timeloop could do to a psyche? The consequences are unknown and therefore it would be foolhardy to simply blatantly disregard.

As for contradictions to my story, the most obvious one would be that I posted,
"
I like heavy metal. My favorite band is Next Nihil, but I am also a big fan of both Headless and Ebony Coffin. I have an extensive collection of classic metal too. I don't get nearly enough time to listen to it.
under my information upon joining Paranormalis and yet I have continued to state that I won't comment on the arts. I wonder what I my purpose of doing so might be?

Showing you a photo now would be like me letting you open a Christmas present early, with an emphasis on "me." And when I say that, I only refer to my relative preferential time for releasing photos. I am not adverse to giving you an early bird peak at future technologies, nor do I even consider this time to be primitive. The discomfort has more to do with my personal safety at the moment. John Titor had a mobile machine and he had trusted sources here. I have neither. Also, I am not fit or properly armed for a struggle. I am of the opinion that I am already being watched. If I post anything that could 100% positively ID me as a traveler, I would be swept up immediately. Titor also had the good fortune of arriving at a safer date. TOR is already compromised. Most encryption programs are compromised. If I introduce a new one, it would gather similar unwanted attention. Simply, expect that I probably won't release any photos until I am confident of my ability to evade other forces. As I have said before, photos of the machine itself will not be released until the day I am leaving.

What is this email experiment?

I'm sorry if I missed anyone's questions. I let posts build up and I may have missed some.
 

Apoc

New Member
Messages
8
Aevi, "the experiment" is essentially this - when you leave this time period/worldline/universe, 'participants' give you a personal message or email to give to 'someone' in the past who will be capable of delivering these messages somehow to the individual participants in the past. You then make a jump back to the past (preferably not very far, perhaps only a few weeks or months at most), when you arrive in the past you give this 'someone' the messages from the future participants, and instructions on who to or where to deliver them so that the 'participants' receive the messages in the past (this particular 'someone' in the past passes these messages on to the participants via email or some other method.)

It's something like this anyway. Maybe someone else can explain it better. If we could get Pamela in on this perhaps she could explain it best.
 

Anonynez

Junior Member
Messages
77
I dont think the email experiment will work with Aevi because his machine is not only disfunctional, but it was also untested and only took him to one spot ultimately leaving him stranded. If he could go anywhere I venture to guess it would either be to his desired location (1865?), or back home to his future. The email experiment was Titors thing. I think this guy is on a different plane. It doesnt seem to be his way of thinking. We cant take these ideas from the past related to one TT and apply it to all TT's (alleged or real). Think outside of the box a little. You have to.
 

Giorgio Armani

Junior Member
Messages
68
I do not believe our friend Aevi Vegr is a real Time Traveler. On October 7th, in Post #22 Aevi said:

In 2013, Obama was president, but he resigned. I don't remember the name of the guy that replaced him and the next election was won by Paul. The Paul Administration is the last, because of the post revolution world oligarchy.

On October 10th in Post #52, I asked him the following question...

3) Today our government is set up with the President, the House of Representatives, the Senate, etc...and there are 50 states that Congress and Senators represent. They are mostly made up of two major political parties, Democrats and Republicans. Can you describe the governing system of the U.S. in 2043? If it's a New World Order (NWO), who is at the top? If there is a world leader, what is his name?​

Aevi's answer:

3. It's an oligarchy, which is basically a council of nine. First Citizen Adrik Roshal is their leader as of 2043. He has other titles too, some people call him the president although that isn't a proper title.
Then on October 14th in a Private Conversation, I told Aevi the following information about John Titor's world:

BTW, when John's new government was formed, they had 5 presidents instead of one. That way no one person had too much power at one time. ..(The U.S. was divided into 5 sections. Each president represented one of the 5 sections of the U.S.)​


Three days later, on October 17th in Post #99, Aevi said:

I would call the U.S. government bureaucratic. It functions as an oligarchy beneath the Oligarchy. They still have some elections, but they are already preset. It has five regions in mainland America that each have their own representative in the oligarch. The people aren't elected, they are nominated into position by the elected region presidents. The region presidents are similar to the present day president. The states still exist in an altered form. The changes were supposedly made in "an attempt to make a compromise with the revolutionaries." They claim that only the extremists didn't accept the compromise. I have oversimplified the process of how it came to be, but that is my basic understanding.
Notable names include the Paul, Roshal, Bernanke, Berezovsky, Wirnhier, that's a small list.

I believe Aevi is making up his story as we go along. I believe he used the information I told him about John Titor's America, and integrated it into his own story. While it is a very interesting, nothing in it convinced me that he is a Time Traveler. He has a very good imagination.

I like you Aevi, but I don't think you're a TT.

Good spot!

I also noticed that Aevi mentioned things that already exist, but are also not very well known. (Such as the memristors, which were invented in the last decade.)
A TT should always mention something that doesn't exist yet if they want people to believe. If they really want people to believe they should show unedited pictures of the object. I also noticed that Aevi's story slightly changed when I pointed out that the Memristors wouldn't be available next year. (It was due to delays for commercial reasons)

However Aevi seems to have vanished when pictures are going be requested, and out of pattern. (I noticed that Aevi generally appears around 5-6PM every 2 days, its been more than a week)

Here is the second trip-up I noticed:

Firstly Aevi says on #106:

I'll share the basic mathematical idea behind the causality issue.
M(T1)=U[T0->T1](M(T0))
U = local physical laws
We assume that T*:T0<T*<T1
Now I will have the system influence itself with what I will call T2, and show the influence as being T2>T1.
Thusly, I would show the change in the system as:
{M(T1)=U[T0->T1](M(T0);M(T2))
{M(T2)=U[T1->T2](M(T1))

Then on #144
For instance, there is no known mechanism for causality.

I guess it could be said that the Mechanism and the Idea being the equation on how causality works being the mechanism, thus being a contradiction.
Aevi Vegr former FBI agent has gone into hiding , im sure he was instructed to keep his mouth shut or be silenced.
 

Apoc

New Member
Messages
8
If Aevi is willing and able, and agrees to it, then perhaps we could create our own version(s) of the "experiment". We all give Aevi personal messages to take with him to wherever he goes, either back home to the 2040's, or to his destination in the 1800's. Didn't Aevi say his original mission destination was the 1840's? We could also give him instructions regarding who to give our personal messages to, or what to do with our messages when he gets to wherever he goes. Perhaps we could all give him two messages, one intended for the 1800's and one intended for the 2040's. What do you think, Aevi? Would you be willing to do this?
 

Khaos

where the wild things are
Messages
1,055
1840s doesn't have the technology. Plus, none of us would be alive to receive them. Its possible that he writes a series of letters or places photographs somewhere, in the 1800s, at a spot where someone in 2013 will know where they re at, taking that into account, the divergence of timelines would make the messages from 1800s appear here in 2013.

I've heard of similar experiments. I've heard of people say that John Titor did this, actually traveled into the 70s and placed messages, and then they were posted in 2000. Which would go upon the multiple John Titors. They all leave messages for each other in different time lines.
 

paradox404

Active Member
Messages
672
hmm... I am depressed.
You all operate on a presumption of knowledge.
I will attempt to answer once again. Some of you seem to have missed the entirety of my being here.
I have never wanted to be believed. I have said that since the beginning. The option of belief is entirely up to you.
Please, I fail to see any contradictions in what I have said.
On the political side, I showed levels of politics. I talked about the world stage and the American stage. Wouldn't it make sense that lower stages were imitations of larger? And why is integration for the sake of analogy any proof of deceit? Samstwitch, didn't Paul use analogies of sports without deifying a sport? I may not be wording that quite right... The point is that using example I have learned from you does not in any way mean that what I am saying is false or even based upon Titor.
Nonetheless, America is currently divided into five regions, These regions are the Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, Southwest, and the West. The regions of the United States are grouped by history, traditions, economy, climate, and geography. Why would the Oligarchy change that? Wouldn't it make sense for them to use these obviously different regions? These regions aren't even from Titor, but are found commonly throughout your culture.
To restate yet again the political world of my time, there is the Oligarchy which is worldwide and is lead by a council of nine. Each one of them is the ruler of a region. These regions are subdivided. It isn't easy to destroy actultural identity. It is ffart geasier for a new ruler to embrace the identity of the conquered. This is the concept at work.

What was the purpose of me posting about the device again? Can anyone recall? I told Samstwitch about the true nature of the device before I gave into pressure and openly said, "correct" when someone guessed it. And I told her th
en that it doesn't prove my existence as a Time Traveler. The emphasis wasn't so much on the device to prove my
self but on events surrounding its dawn. I also commented on how the nature of the device has such an impact on extrahuman evolution. How exactly did my story change? I said that the technology was released by Apple in my worldline, but that here in this worldline HP had the patent. I also noted that only Apple had the ability commercialize the technology efficiently. On top of that, I mentioned to Samstwitch that the latest information I could dig up said that HP had entered into a business deal with two other companies, but that those companies were unknown to me.
Although, I admit that the technology is amazing and cool and perhaps I was a bit frenzied over that.
On the other hand, every single technology I have mentioned could be linked to present day. Some of the technologies I have not mentioned, but have intended to show you all, could be traced to today. Chimera's already exist. Scientists have already solidified light. The hydrogen powered spaceship I mentioned already has its engines built. Warp drive technologies are being researched by NASA. I could have talked about any of these technologies and you could say the same. Physicists have already predicted the majority of the major inventions for the next fifty years. They were discussing tablets in the late 80's.

As for pictures, why would I disappear at the request of that? I have been hounded about them since I got to this forum. Every single time I replied that they would appear when the time was right. And the majority of my posts have actually been between 1AM and 5AM. Temporal Recon even commented about that in our email chats.

Please, I invite you to take my math and the statements surrounding it to any theoretical physicist.

I have a lot more to say to catch up on what has been said. Perhaps in a day or two.


Actually, there is no real way for you to prove you are a time traveler. Being as knowledge of the future causes alterations of it, you could not possibly give predictions to prove it. Besides, that would prove nothing more than some psychic ability. I find the whole concept of time travel to be really interesting. But that is a mute point. It totally unprovable unless one could pinpoint themselves in younger or older form and make a correct DNA match to that person.

I remember an example of that was in an anime called Steins;Gate (Based of the John Titor story, some parts more than others), where the main character sends a message back in time to win the lottery and the winning number was one off.

However another way for someone to prove they are a time traveler is to go back in time and tell their younger self something only what the TT's younger self knew.

That would prove the claim only to the younger version. And it would be a word against word thing not hard data type proof..... To prove a point, If you gave most kids 100.00 they will claim you are the king of france because they haven't quite developed the concept of manipulation yet.
It's not the attempt to prove me to be a hoax that got me depressed. I am more concerned with the mystification of divergence.
It's just vector calculus. Admittedly, it's 10th dimensional vector calculus based off a dependent background. I could calculate it by hand with some great effort. Really, I wouldn't want to calculate it by hand. I learned that there is estimated to be about 10^540 worldlines that could be considered similar to my own. It's all based on the generalized theorem. There are no attractor fields, just geometry.
As for a device that has the ability to calculate divergence, it would be a large array of sensors with a very powerful computer and it could only give approximations. The method for describing the divergence might also be different. The most accurate way of describing divergence would be in relation to the central worldline. It would be very difficult to discover what is the central worldline and Humans might not even exist on it. That is absolute divergence, compared to relative divergence.
I fully believe in the possibility of 100% divergent universe. It is simply impossible to accurately call it a divergence. I am sorry for the miscommunication there, I felt that I explained it well enough. Nevertheless, I would need to expand the English Language a bit to properly describe the different types of universal polymorphism. I merely stated that it would be so far removed that it would have its own separate set of worldlines. So at 100% there is a new absolute divergence scale. I also believe that reaching such a divergence would require more than a time machine. I think it's time for me to create yet another one of my despised diagrams! I'll present it later, although it really is hard to describe multidimensional theories in 2 dimensions. The relationship between each of these divergence scales might possibly be able to be placed along another scale, which I think more appropriately could be called the universal divergence scale. Outside of that, even, might be placed the multiversal divergence scale, but I'm not sure if that term is accurate either.
Paradox, I hesitate to use your terminology. Mainly because using a planetary scale seems unwise to me. I also am not sure if describe a universe that reaches paradox as being destroyed as accurate. If there truly is a mechanism for causality, it is just as likely that in a given scenario paradoxes never happen, opposed to the scenario ending or half a dozen other possibilities.
And that brings me to an explanation as to why Paradox's trip-up is inaccurate. Knowing the mechanics is far removed from simply avoiding them. The equation shows that time travel is possible to be done in such a way as to minimize the risk of violating causality. I will quote from an earlier conversation (October 5th) with Samstwitch to explain this concept.
Have you heard the myth of Shangri La?
According to the myth, deep in the Himalayas there is a secret valley where a city exists outside of time. The city is a repository for all the knowledge of the ancient world. That is essentially what I am supposed to try to create in the Rockies. It is out of the way and attempts to be outside of the events of the world until after all the events are through. We are not attempting to change the past, but to give us 200 years to prepare for a final battle. This is how we are attempting to beat causality. If I were to go try to change the founding documents, that would be a blatant violation of causality.
There is no known mechanism for causality, but that doesn't mean causality doesn't exist. It probably exists in some form, but we don't know what that forms is and we don't know how causality functions as a limiter. Nevertheless, the proposition of causality is more than enough to try to avoid it. Imagine what a paradoxical timeloop could do to a psyche? The consequences are unknown and therefore it would be foolhardy to simply blatantly disregard.

As for contradictions to my story, the most obvious one would be that I posted,
"
I like heavy metal. My favorite band is Next Nihil, but I am also a big fan of both Headless and Ebony Coffin. I have an extensive collection of classic metal too. I don't get nearly enough time to listen to it.
under my information upon joining Paranormalis and yet I have continued to state that I won't comment on the arts. I wonder what I my purpose of doing so might be?

Showing you a photo now would be like me letting you open a Christmas present early, with an emphasis on "me." And when I say that, I only refer to my relative preferential time for releasing photos. I am not adverse to giving you an early bird peak at future technologies, nor do I even consider this time to be primitive. The discomfort has more to do with my personal safety at the moment. John Titor had a mobile machine and he had trusted sources here. I have neither. Also, I am not fit or properly armed for a struggle. I am of the opinion that I am already being watched. If I post anything that could 100% positively ID me as a traveler, I would be swept up immediately. Titor also had the good fortune of arriving at a safer date. TOR is already compromised. Most encryption programs are compromised. If I introduce a new one, it would gather similar unwanted attention. Simply, expect that I probably won't release any photos until I am confident of my ability to evade other forces. As I have said before, photos of the machine itself will not be released until the day I am leaving.

What is this email experiment?

I'm sorry if I missed anyone's questions. I let posts build up and I may have missed some.

What do you mean by Tor is compromised? Please explain what you mean, as the creators specifically mention that there is none and that tor would shut down if they were forced to add in a back door.

Im not saying that the planetary scale is absolute, I'm just saying that it is a type of divergence that can be factored into the absolute divergence, basically a version of earth that has the exact same time-line as ours but has all of the countries at various tilts is not the same as ours.

Aevi, when I say that a World-line is randomly destroyed by a Paradox or just in general, during the event the universe would instantly achieve an extremely high divergence, forking from the unaffected world lines. I guess you could say that the universe's divergence would turn away like a wave.

This is how I see divergence, the universe would not instantly gain higher divergence when an event is altered, say for example a TT goes back in time and kills Hitler shortly after he's born. The Worldline would have roughly the same divergence number as us, but when the time of WW2 comes the Worldline would promptly gain divergence from that point onwards, possibly until or certain point or will continue to do so, depending on events on the time-line.

Knowing that all these different scales exist means that a absolute scale can be constructed by averaging them out, thus it can be said that a (primitive) divergence meter can be constructed, in 2013. (I know how to do it.)

Aevi, you seem to be taking ideas that others are saying and adding it into your story, such as you have only mentioned other divergence scales after I mentioned them. (I'm not saying that I don't believe you, I'm just saying that's odd.)

1840s doesn't have the technology. Plus, none of us would be alive to receive them. Its possible that he writes a series of letters or places photographs somewhere, in the 1800s, at a spot where someone in 2013 will know where they re at, taking that into account, the divergence of timelines would make the messages from 1800s appear here in 2013.

I've heard of similar experiments. I've heard of people say that John Titor did this, actually traveled into the 70s and placed messages, and then they were posted in 2000. Which would go upon the multiple John Titors. They all leave messages for each other in different time lines.

It is possible that we might not actually receive the letters, depending on the time line, the cause might be there (The experemement) but the effect might be missing (The letters). In particular, there is a high chance the letters wont reach us if they are sent to our past selves. (As the effect happens before the cause.)
 

Liberty

Member
Messages
479
Well you said you should not be on the 2013 worldline. :D as you said. Do your part for the REVOLUTION;)

Let me return the favor. Beware of earthquakes in the NW also. I'm sure you know.
 


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