Debate John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?

[shane]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

So what's our next course of action in the quest for global domination.?

If history is to be believed, unavoidable social collapse. Don't worry though. It won't happen in our lifetimes.

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Keroscene\")</div>

I thought a rhetorical question was one that an awnser could'nt be provided for, where here is not the case. ?I could awnser this question if my beliefs respected the position of Iraq having nukes, or not. This is my favorite rhetorical question, \"What kind of stupid plan is that?\" [/b]

So you're implying JT was literally waiting for an answer?



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Keroscene\")</div>

Not knowing much about sanctions, but I do believe that Iraqs agreement to terminate Nuclear development after the Gulf War left many loopholes for a possible reconstruction of one after the sanctions had been lifted. ?This was always a concern, from the beginning, and can be blamed on rushing the sanctions and the US untimely departure after the Gulf War. ?What other possible scapegoat could have been used for a war with Iraq which justified killing millions of innocents? (911) And no, he didn't say, ?


W is going to lie about WMD to get us into a war,\" that is someone taking the question out of context and creating a statement which would then be a prediction.

I hope he was talking about our current status, and we do stabilize Iraq, or this question just might get asked again.

Here are my predictions on a 2001 timeline where I will be proven wrong on one and aren't intended to confuse anyone. (edited for clarity)

Iraq has nukes now.
Just BS to whip everyone up into accepting the next war.



All I need to do is add the word \"or\", no one can prove anything and I am right no matter what happens.

Here is a prediction that would prove I am a time traveler beyond a reasonable doubt but would'nt have been any use to anyone before the event and would be long gone before anyone caught on.

911 is more than a phone number..[/b]

I still don't understand how "JT didn't say it like I would've said it" argument is proving anything... You realize not everyone is the same?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Keroscene\")</div>

My only question for you is, \"Do you agree or not that the prediciton would be proven true wether they found nukes in Iraq or not?\" I have awnsered all of yours to the best of my abilities.[/b]

Well, it would've been half true, he mentioned going to war also.

So he just happened to mention two significant events happening in our near future, that no one could've guessed before 9/11. What do you think the odds of that are?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Keroscene\")</div>

\"
JT - \"Are you really surprised to find out that Iraq has nukes now or is that just BS to whip everyone up into accepting the next war?\"- The more I read it, the more it sounds to me like he thinks they have nukes,[/b]

And that we were going to war with them over it...How convienently you ignore that part..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Keroscene\")</div>

and is asking someone to debate that they don't.[/b]

Debate we were going to war with iraq over WMD? Why the hell would he have expected anyone to take up that argument back in 2000?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Goodwin\")</div>

?
You're entire argument is based on a value judgement Lagnar. You think that your truth is different to mine? - Its not really you know. Your arguing for your particular truth. And right now that's as subjective as anyone else's in here. [/b]

You're entire argument is based around emotion, you admitted JT's stories logic is unbreakable, you're just trying to be argumentive now..apparently the JT story makes you feel insecure..



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Goodwin\")</div>

?
Besides what's more hostile ? My vehementaly arguing against the credibility of an internet hoaxer? Or that hoaxer promising (almost with glee) that my little girls' only future is a horrible death along with millions upon millions of others like them? Don't you dare talk to me about hostile.[/b]

Atleast you finally admit your argument is an emotional one..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Goodwin\")</div>

And as far as the all-conquering WMD prediction goes - there's really no escaping Keroscene's observation that 'Titor's' 'prediction' - the one so many here seem in awe of - is a classic win-win statement. In other words, it could easily be read other way around - as 'Titor' confirming that there are in fact nukes in Iraq. ?
?
So all you guys who take this as an astonishing fact that only 'Titor' could have known are simply seeing what they want to see.
?
Go on, read it again and tell me this isn't so.
?
?
\"<span style='font-family:Verdana'>Are you really surprised to find out that Iraq has nukes now or is that just BS to whip everyone up into accepting the next war?\\"</span>


?
So much for the indisputable 'truth' that 'Titor' saw the no WMDs in Iraq coming! Is there anything this guy said that isn't open to interpretation?[/b]

I guess if you wanna ignore someone "just mentioning " events in our time unfolding exactly the way he implied, when no one could've guessed it, go right ahead. He could've said " Will there be tsunami in asia in 2004 or is that just liberals trying to scare you about global warming?" And you'd say he still wasn't making a prediction..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"shane\")</div>

If history is to be believed, unavoidable social collapse. Don't worry though. It won't happen in our lifetimes.[/b]

Everything ends eventually, that isn't much of a guess..

 

[shane]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

People like L.Ron Hubbard understood that if you really wanted to make some money, the thing to do is start a new religion.

LOL! I was reading some of these posts yesterday and said to myself, "My god, some crackpot lawyer has pulled a L. Ron Hubbard." It seems that most Titor believers are just that - believers. People have done away with logic, sadly.

I've pulled a few hoaxes in my day, the most entertaining of which involved convincing a group of kids that I was a werewolf. Seeing what has happened with the Titor hoax has convinced me to never pull another one. This hoax has been left to dry for quite a while, and some people are still clinging to it, forming methods of thought that prove it true rather than attempting to prove it true with their own method of thought. This guy has accomplished nothing short of mind control. That's respectable, maybe even admirable, but mostly it's abominable.

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Goodwin\")</div>

Yeah, well your observation, Keroscene, that the WMD quote could be interpreted either way may not amount to a debunking but it certainly shows 'Titor' did NOT say unambiguously there would be no WMDs found in Iraq. Well pointed out.[/b]

Interpreted? Maybe if you're arguing from emotion, but no one could've guessed that by coincidence and to ignore that is to ignore reason.

 

[LetThereBeLight!]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

First, let's keep the accusations for someone else, as mainly you type of people do, without proof of any evidence --- Goodwin.
I do not believe Titor, and never said that anyone actually did. However, some people do find that what he typed is disturbing, to say the least!
Mainly, I find that people like you are the ones causing the story to happen, since it is assumed by you type of people that you do all the thinking, as in actually what you do is -- Thought Control. I do not subject myself to Thought Control.

I have pointed out --- 3 science physics since Dr. Kaku, that are real in the physics community of all physicists, and even a News acticle, and like usual, you type of people ignore, or try to change, while perhaps even making it happen!

Get off the accusations, as I find that earlier in my life, actually being attacked, and by others whose company no longer exists, is still an excuse by you type of people.

Now, you can avoid the science, have an opinion, but that opinion won't mean jack shyte to anyone, who keeps their mind, and does not rely on emotion to make their day.
By the way, how mad are you type of people, to think that other people really do not notice?

If that is religion, then it is from -- Hell!

Then it may just be- -- Armageddon then!
Whatever the cause of you people type of delusions, other people do not share in illusions!

In fact, there is only a discussion about the physics going on, and thinking being done by physicists.
Andl as scientists actually, they are not going to say that anything can be done, unless it is done. That will take experiments like at the LHC, and more thinking about the puzzling questions they ask theirselves.

Now, some people are really "nuts" if they think that they are going to gang up and attack me again, as in the Past! Live on Hate, for the whole entire World can do that.
Just ask me now, and I won't even answer anyone on such questions anymore, because of the thought patterns that seem to occur from such people.

If there were a "trial" of such said timelord (titor), which there will not be, since words do not excite anyone to action, the very same people discussing this with the attitude that is occuring, could never be on the jury. They do not pick people like you type of people.

So, if I could just infer from that bit of info, then is it possible, that you people actually like criminals, and never want to convict anyone ever, for anything they done, including crimes against me?

I do not like and will not like that type of thinking!
Never!
And neither do a lot of other people.

Titor is not a religion and never will be, so keep the madness to yourselves!
It seems on both sides of the equation there are a lot of people only interested in "Control" and not religion, as they all infer that God is about "control" or "power".
Too bad most people did not actually learn about religion when they were young!

God is about "Grace" and "Forgiveness" but only to a certain extent, and also concerned with "Compassion" and "All the Virtues"!
Then if not liking that, God merely sends people to "Hell" and out of existence!

It is amazing what some other people think that some other people should do!
I know from experience, and the paycheck is not coming in, not in anyway, shape, or form. Nada, none!

What physicists, who want to see if those little itty bitty black holes that will evaporate, are saying is that --- if some people knew that this little itty bitty very small black hole could move the mass of a small mountain, then some people may think it is too dangerous to even try! But given the energies associated with the LHC, they may just stumble upon those little very small itty bitty things anyway!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!

 

[virtualgirl]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Hmmmm, Well Goodwin, what can I say. I'm not for bloodshed in anyway, but I suppose that I am a "redneck survivalist". I'm a survivalist and I am from Texas. Weather JT is real or a hoax, the things that he said seem to be fullfilling. I feel, as a survivalist, it never hurts to be prepared. If nothing happens, your really not out anything. Everything that you gather can still be used in your everyday life. If it does happen, you save your family. And so far, Titor has been pretty much bang on. Like or not. And I'm not a Titorite. As you can see, I have been searching for "Truth". As hard as I have tried, I still haven't been able to identify him and his family, nor have I been able to prove it a complete hoax. You don't have to look at the JT scenario. Just turn on your television. People that have never even heard of JT are starting to worry now. I'm speaking of mainstream folks. So anyway, I don't know what to say. Call me what you wish, a redneck or whatever. I can myself a realist.

VG

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Goodwin\")</div>

Here's some redneck survivalist whose letter ( about two thirds down) describes how 'Titor' is bang on and how he and his fellow militia have been preparing for a civil war for years.


http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2004/08/10.html


Now just supposing that 'Titor's' predictions actually cement the idea of the inevitability of civil war in these people's eyes and tip the chances of it happening in favour of conflict. Actually inspiring one of these bozos to start shooting somewhere. Wheras without 'Titor' it might not have taken place?

Then all this hoo-ha surrounding 'Titor's' claims would actually be responsible for the blood-shed. Anyone any thoughts about this self-fulfilling prophecy scenario?[/b]

 

[shane]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

nor have I been able to prove it a complete hoax.

I can't prove that my next-door neighbor, ol' Lenny, didn't create the universe, but that doesn't mean I'll buy a t-shirt with his grizzled mug on it.

 

[Hemoman]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"shane\")</div>

I can't prove that my next-door neighbor, ol' Lenny, didn't create the universe, but that doesn't mean I'll buy a t-shirt with his grizzled mug on it.[/b]

LOL

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"shane\")</div>

I can't prove that my next-door neighbor, ol' Lenny, didn't create the universe, but that doesn't mean I'll buy a t-shirt with his grizzled mug on it.[/b]

Well if your ol neighbor lenny, starts giving out secrets to the universe and scientists prove he's right, you might want to rethink that.

 

[Keroscene]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Passive_Extremist\")</div>

At least you finally admit your argument is an emotional one..
[/b]

You're right, the truth hurts.