Debate John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?

[Apogee]

Re: John Titor Debate!

So when do I get to see you match JT? It should be no sweat right?[/QUOTE]

I'm not normally in the business of fortune telling but here's how things will pan out I reckon...


In August 2006 advocates for the theory that the on-line hoaxer going by the name 'john titor' was in fact a time traveller from the year 2036 are embarrassed when he is conclusively identified as one Rodney "Stinky" Pemberton - a political science drop-out, avid science-fiction geek and self-confessed mummy's boy.

When asked the reasons for his elaborate charade, Pemberton, who'd had a long string of low paid work, stressed that it had all been "just good fun" and that he'd got the idea after a stint selling cheap household cleaning products door to door. "Some people will buy any old crap he said," he said.

Pressed to explain how so many of his future predictions appeared to mirror real world events, Pemberton explained "Oh...there was no real trick to it...all of that shit you could read up on when I said it but then all those folks got to believing that that wasn't the case...you know...and then take the Iraq stuff, I said it in such a way that you could easily read that there WERE nukes over there...so I couldn't really lose...shit just happens. Then they ignored all the stuff I got wrong and then went to work making the rest fit well enough! I done laughed my ass off reading about just how!"

 

[m6scott]

Re: John Titor Debate!

Just a thought if any of us were a time traveler why post on a website that you are a time traveler? I mean if I were a time traveler I dont think I would let anyone know? Unless maybe if I were in trouble maybe but not knowing what this time line is about I would keep silent. Dont get me wrong its very interesting reading on this site but I think we are all hungry for real proof.

 

[StarLord]

Re: John Titor Debate!

Passive,

It's interesting to read through your posts and note the high regard you have for those that choose not to swallow the titor story. Apogee has pointed out some very good points regarding the socalled predictions from someone that is supposedly from the future. I see no arrogance in Apogee's points of contention that he has pointed out to you. In fact, they are rather matter of fact, middle of the road, observations. What's also missing from his posts are any type of emotional hints towards those that might disagree.

Depending on the observer, some of those holes in this story fairly seem to jump out at one. Also, the almost hidden despite which the authors imbued in the characters persona. The obvious abhorence of any type of 'connection' from them boggles the mind. Much the same as some ticked off adult scolds the children for the mess made at a party when they themselves refrained to oversee said party. That's not arrogance? Sheeya!

And then the all time favorite which boils down to "I am not going to give out any information that will save lives" Of course you aren't. Why come back and save lives, they are going to die anyway right? Surely they deserve to die don't they?
After all, it's their ancestors that caused all this predicament in the first place isn't it?
Why, If it wasn't for them, we would still have plenty of petrol wouldn't we?
Please. That makes about as much sense as blaming me or any other living people for the Sugar, Rum, Opium and Slave trade triangles, that made quite a few nations rich.

Depending upon a persons outlook whether it be positive or negative, that person will see into any situation their prevaling inner mood because that's all their present mindset will allow them to see. A habitually negative person will habitually see only the negative aspects of a situation and a positive person will pick up the reverse.
However, if you could care less either way, you might be able to see how people could see something either way.

I have yet to see Apogee 'Frothing at the Mouth' as some one has put it. His reserve and abstention from outright insults seems to be par for course here.

Again, the term of 'Debunk' seems to mean something horrid and an anathma to debate and directed personally to those that do not agree with others opinions.
So What? If everybody thought the same thing, we might not have made it out of the trees or crawled out of the oceans in the first place. Which, if the authors of titor had any sense would have blamed to begin with.

God Bless you Mrs Doak where ever you may be, for your endeavour to make people happy and still make a pence here and there.

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Debate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

?
I'm not normally in the business of fortune telling but here's how things will pan out I reckon...
?
?
In August 2006 advocates for the theory that the on-line hoaxer going by the name 'john titor' was in fact a time traveller from the year 2036 are embarrassed when he is conclusively identified as one Rodney \"Stinky\" Pemberton - a political science drop-out, avid science-fiction geek and self-confessed mummy's boy.
?
When asked the reasons for his elaborate charade, Pemberton, who'd had a long string of low paid work, stressed that it had all been \"just good fun\" and that he'd got the idea after a stint selling cheap household cleaning products door to door. \"Some people will buy any old crap he said,\" he said. ?
?
Pressed to explain how so many of his future predictions appeared to mirror real world events, Pemberton explained \"Oh...there was no real trick to it...all of that shit you could read up on when I said it but then all those folks got to believing that that wasn't the case...you know...and then take the Iraq stuff, I said it in such a way that you could easily read that there WERE nukes over there...so I couldn't really lose...shit just happens. Then they ignored all the stuff I got wrong and then went to work making the rest fit well enough! I done laughed my ass off reading about just how!\"[/b]

So you admit all you can do is make jokes?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"StarLord\")</div>

Passive,
?
What's also missing from his posts are any type of emotional hints towards those that might disagree. [/b]

I wouldn't really call someone who ridicules others in his posts as "emotionless"


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"StarLord\")</div>

Depending upon a persons outlook whether it be positive or negative, that person will see into any situation their prevaling inner mood because that's all their present mindset will allow them to see. A habitually negative person will habitually see only the negative aspects of a situation and a positive person will pick up the reverse.
However, if you could care less either way, you might be able to see how people could see something either way.[/b]

Let me do the predicting.. you're one of those people who could "care less"? However manage to find time to post all sorts of opinions about something you " don't care about". Why would you do that?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"StarLord\")</div>

I have yet to see Apogee 'Frothing at the Mouth' as some one has put it. His reserve and abstention from outright insults seems to be par for course here.[/b]

Nice try starlord, but Apogee's posts don't paint such an innocent picture..


'"Originally Posted by Apogee""
Its not a question of sitting on the fence. Those that defend this stuff most fervently...WANT to believe it. They see nothing but the bad in the cops and the government and people in general and see some awful conflict brewing for that reason. Maybe they should stop being so critical of the people and the world around them and take a look at themselves instead. '"

"Oringinally posted by Apogee"
I hate to throw rocks but he's already said what he'd have done in a previous post - throw rocks!

" Originally posted by apogee"
I know Titor's libertarian-ish militia-happy anti-goverment future plays well to the conspiracy-oriented mind..."

..or

"Originally Posted by Apogee"
If those who hold Titor's so-called 'predictions' as iron-clad fact areso right then just about everyone should be on the verge of accepting them...and yet this is not the case...how do they account for the fact that its so mind-bogglingly easy to pick holes in them? "



Personally I'd call ridiculing or condescending people who have different opinions than you as worthy of being labeled " frothing mouth" . You might not, but chances are you probably enjoy ridiculing people too.

By the way wasn't it Apogee who branded people here the term here "fence walkers"?



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"StarLord\")</div>

Again, the term of 'Debunk' seems to mean something horrid and an anathma to debate and directed personally to those that do not agree with others opinions.
So What? If everybody thought the same thing, we might not have made it out of the trees or crawled out of the oceans in the first place. Which, if the authors of titor had any sense would have blamed to begin with.[/b]

I'd wouldn't really say name calling is just " not agreeing with others"...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"StarLord\")</div>

God Bless you Mrs Doak where ever you may be, ?for your endeavour to make people happy and still make a pence here and there.[/b]

Even after illustrating your "innocence" , you still manage to lash out insecurely with a cheap shot. Oh the irony.

 

[StarLord]

Re: John Titor Debate!

Passive,

I have reread Apogee's posts and it's interesting that your illustrations to his emotional references were in reference to your own posts using those same words that you chose to use.
Or did you miss that?

The reference to fences is a simple observation. I have yet to see him say Passive is a " " when it comes to Titor.

 

[Roth Joint]

Re: John Titor Debate!

Ever heard of the expression: ?mobile electric chairs??

http://tinyurl.com/cvo3mhttp://tinyurl.com/cvo3mhttp://tinyurl.com/cvo3m
</span>(article originally appeared on: <a href=\'http://www.sun-sentinel.com/\' target=\'_blank\'><span style=\'color:#0000ff\'>www.sun-sentinel.com</a> June,16 2005)</span>

John Titor:
?However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal. Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, "In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems?"<span style=\'font-family:Verdana\'> When they use the word "enemy", they\'re talking about YOU! You don\'t really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you??

 

[Apogee]

Re: John Titor Debate!

By the way wasn't it Apogee who branded people here the term here "fence walkers"?

Hey Passive, take a chill pill.

I agree that my style is a wee bit provocative occasionally, but in general I have tried hard to stick to the brief that its "okay to believe weird and totally bizarre stuff on this board". But, unfortunately, my views are my views and I fail to see why I should hold back when others can post stuff equally provocative in the name of ( in my opinion) the absolute defiance of good old fashioned common sense.

And that being the case I challenge you to find the post where I labelled or branded anyone a 'fence walker'!

Fence sitter maybe.

But then, hey, (*wink*) who isn't really, eh ?

Starlord did a good and brave job defending my stance, but ultimately I fear you're right Passive. I have indeed allowed myself to insert emotional bias into my posts. But if I've done so its in response, not to my inclination on the Titor debate, but rather to that absolutely unbearable po-faced, solemn and almost-awestruck tone that you Titor 'confirmationists' seem to strike every time one of you comes across some news story that appears - and I use the word advisedly - to back old JT up. There's the nasty stench of religous fervour about you.

And, right on cue, here's another disciple, Roth Joint with another.

Before I go can I just request that somebody PLEASE do something drastic to save this board from descending into the outright, untouchable holy world of the divine believers...where truth and ( that outdated and apparently defunct phrase again ) common sense... no longer have a place.

Ah...**** it...

Standby...

here comes another emotional and provocative outburst...

but

(through grimaced teeth)

can't...

help...it....

ALL HAIL THE NEW MESSIAH!!!

ALL HAIL!! The Church of John Titor is here!!!

Pick up your official Titor prayer mats and Mugs at the door!

Goodbye everyone...just realised this is a hiding to no where.

No great loss for you again I'm sure...but its time for me to return to the real world.... L. Ron Hubbard was right... you really want to make some money in this world...start a new religion...you'll never be short of followers.

A lie is still a lie by any other name.

P.S. I don't think, in my departure, it would be too inappropriate to add my own touch of paranoia to a board already awash with the stuff. That being the case, let me just say that if I was the 'Titor' hoaxer...I would undoubtedly be tempted to return to the scene of my crime in another guise. Perhaps to defend my cause with huge conviction. And without pointing too much of a shaking, paranoid finger, its something I suggest everyone, including Roth Joint and Passive Extremist should consider.

 

[Roth Joint]

Re: John Titor Debate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Apogee\")</div>

P.S. I don't think, in my departure, it would be too inappropriate to add my own touch of paranoia to a board already awash with the stuff. That being the case, let me just say that if I was the 'Titor' hoaxer...I would undoubtedly be tempted to return to the scene of my crime in another guise. Perhaps to defend my cause with huge conviction. And without pointing too much of a shaking, paranoid finger, its something I suggest everyone, including Roth Joint and Passive Extremist should consider.[/b]

As it seems, John Titor has now climbed to the status of "religious criminal." How long do you think it will take for him to become a "domestic terrorist?"
Aaaah.... how easy for history to repeat itself.....

Let's both get a little shaky and paranoid Apogee, who do you think might be "John Titor" who has "returned to the scene of his crime in another guise?" Who do you think this criminal is who needs to be crucified?

 

[StarLord]

Re: John Titor Debate!

Roth,

This actually was touched on quite a few months back by some other member. He / she noted that there seemed to be some kind of mirror image between those that were feverently adamant about titor's prophetic abilities and his brand of information and a direct lack of common sense because of that. Apogee is not the first one to make that correlation as he sees it.

Tis a good thing they don't shoot people for what they believe in yet.
Apogee also touched on something very interesting about L. Ron Hubbard and making money. Perhaps it's the subconscious recognition that there is something missing information wise that we were not being given as we grew up? Is it possible that the more fantastic a premiss is the more likely it may be true? There certainly is a shade of the fantastic when it comes to traveling in time...

Well good on yer Apogee. God speed to ya Mate.

 

[Roth Joint]

Re: John Titor Debate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"StarLord\")</div>

Roth,

This actually was touched on quite a few months back by some other member. He / she noted that there seemed to be some kind of mirror image between those that were feverently adamant about titor's prophetic abilities and his brand of information and a direct lack of common sense because of that. Apogee is not the first one to make that correlation as he sees it.

Tis a good thing they don't shoot people for what they believe in yet.
Apogee also touched on something very interesting about L. Ron Hubbard and making money. Perhaps it's the subconscious recognition that there is something missing information wise that we were not being given as we grew up? Is it possible that the more fantastic a premiss is the more likely it may be true? There certainly is a shade of the fantastic when it comes to traveling in time...

Well good on yer Apogee. God speed to ya Mate.[/b]

With other words: You would like to see "John Titor" to be crucified as well?

If you somehow could go back to 1995 and knew without a doubt what would happen on 9/11/2001, would you feel challenged in order to try to prevent it or at least save as many lives as possible to the best of your abilities?

If you somehow could go back to 1995 and knew without a doubt what would happen on 9/11/2001, would you feel challenged in order to try to prevent it or at least save as many lives as possible to the best of your abilities? - Knowing the truth it would happen on many other worldlines anyway?

(feels like ?Groundhog Day?)

John Titor:
?Yes, I could make the changes you suggested but you must remember that there are an infinite number of worldlines out there where I didn?t and I don?t. In fact, there?s even a worldline out there where you?re the time traveler and I?m the one writing the question.?

?Some things that are quite different on one world line have very little effect as time passes and the world lines appear to ?converge? again and look very similar. World line changes are not exponential, they act more like chaotic attractors with varying effect depending on their size and location.?

?I don?t believe that knowing a possible future makes it happen. You are capable of changing your worldline for the better right now. None of the things I have said will be a surprise. They were set in motion ten, twenty, even thirty years ago.?

John Titor:
?..?perhaps its more interesting to consider what I won't be doing to try and stop that war.?

Question: What kind of people will be the ones least trustworthy?

?The people with the most to lose if the world changes - Camel through the eye of a needle??

?What do you think my goals are??

<span style='font-family:Arial'>?The goal is to have a place to go other than your house and to be able to trust someone with your life. Foster those relationships now.\"

</span>?Find 5 people within 100 miles that you trust with your life and stay in contact with them.?

?Get a copy of the US Constitution and read it.?

TimeTravel_0 : I just wish things didn;t have to happen athey way they will.
Yareisa : we cannot change it?
TimeTravel_0 : Its too late.