John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

[K@t 5]

Re: John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

One thing to keep in mind about Stephen Hawking though, in the past few years he has changed his mind (as humans are wont to do) about several of his original theories. He could be wrong about this one too.

 

[K@t 5]

Re: John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

One thing to keep in mind about Stephen Hawking though, in the past few years he has changed his mind (as humans are wont to do) about several of his original theories. He could be wrong about this one too.

 

[StarLord]

Re: John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

The CERN LHC: A Black Hole Factory?
by John G. Cramer

...there are new theoretical predictions that when the new accelerator goes into operation, the LHC's proton-proton collisions may also make something even more exotic: black holes.

(snip)

New ideas suggest that gravity becomes stronger at small distances because of the effects of extra dimensions used only by gravity. In this scenario, as the effective value of G grows larger, the Planck mass drops, and the energy required to produce black holes can drop to 1 TeV, well within range of the LHC but probably out of reach for the Tevatron. Thus, the LHC may turn out to be a "black hole factory", an accelerator that makes large quantities of minimum-size black holes.

http://mist.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw117.html



Sosuemetoo,

Here is a quote from the same article you linked to above:

Is this a disaster scenario, with the resulting black hole devouring first the LHC detector in which the collision occurs, then the surrounding French countryside and the city of Geneva, and finally the Earth itself? Fortunately, no. Black holes with masses around 1 TeV don't stay around long enough to devour anything. As Stephen Hawking taught us, they would be super-hot little objects that would dissipate all their energy very rapidly by emitting radiation and particles before they wink out of existence...​

(My italics)


<span style='font-family:Times New Roman'>I thought that most of the people here were actually interested in time travel. No time travel buff should go without reading \"A Brief History of Time.\"
In that book Hawking shot down the basis of this guy Titor's device, the microsingularity. Also, he ruined it for many science fiction writers.

</span>
[/QUOTE]

Well, thats comforting, lets hope he's right on that. Still, at the very least, it won't be a problem to find france at night as it will glow.

 

[StarLord]

Re: John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

The CERN LHC: A Black Hole Factory?
by John G. Cramer

...there are new theoretical predictions that when the new accelerator goes into operation, the LHC's proton-proton collisions may also make something even more exotic: black holes.

(snip)

New ideas suggest that gravity becomes stronger at small distances because of the effects of extra dimensions used only by gravity. In this scenario, as the effective value of G grows larger, the Planck mass drops, and the energy required to produce black holes can drop to 1 TeV, well within range of the LHC but probably out of reach for the Tevatron. Thus, the LHC may turn out to be a "black hole factory", an accelerator that makes large quantities of minimum-size black holes.

http://mist.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw117.html



Sosuemetoo,

Here is a quote from the same article you linked to above:

Is this a disaster scenario, with the resulting black hole devouring first the LHC detector in which the collision occurs, then the surrounding French countryside and the city of Geneva, and finally the Earth itself? Fortunately, no. Black holes with masses around 1 TeV don't stay around long enough to devour anything. As Stephen Hawking taught us, they would be super-hot little objects that would dissipate all their energy very rapidly by emitting radiation and particles before they wink out of existence...​

(My italics)


<span style='font-family:Times New Roman'>I thought that most of the people here were actually interested in time travel. No time travel buff should go without reading \"A Brief History of Time.\"
In that book Hawking shot down the basis of this guy Titor's device, the microsingularity. Also, he ruined it for many science fiction writers.

</span>
[/QUOTE]

Well, thats comforting, lets hope he's right on that. Still, at the very least, it won't be a problem to find france at night as it will glow.

 

[StarLord]

Re: John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"K@t 5\")</div>

One thing to keep in mind about Stephen Hawking though, in the past few years he has changed his mind (as humans are wont to do) about several of his original theories. He could be wrong about this one too.[/b]

Kat, with a mind like his, Stephen can change it as much as he wants. eventually he'll arrive at the right point.

Just imagine the small talk he and Einstein would have over a cup of tea. Methinks you would need at least a recorder and three of four translators for afterwards.

 

[StarLord]

Re: John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"K@t 5\")</div>

One thing to keep in mind about Stephen Hawking though, in the past few years he has changed his mind (as humans are wont to do) about several of his original theories. He could be wrong about this one too.[/b]

Kat, with a mind like his, Stephen can change it as much as he wants. eventually he'll arrive at the right point.

Just imagine the small talk he and Einstein would have over a cup of tea. Methinks you would need at least a recorder and three of four translators for afterwards.

 

[K@t 5]

Re: John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

I thought in light of the turn of the conversation that this article might just be relevent. Keep in mind as well, no one thought we'd be able to harness the atom and look what we've done with that. Who can say that in a few more years we won't learn how to harness a black hole as well?

?Hawking concedes black hole bet

• 19:26 21 July 2004
• NewScientist.com news service
• Jenny Hogan, Dublin

Related Articles

• Hawking cracks black hole ?paradox
• 14 July 2004
• Massive black holes common ?in early Universe
• 02 June 2004
• Giant black hole caught ?devouring star
• 18 February 2004
• Search New Scientist
• Contact us

Web Links

• Stephen Hawking
• 17th ?International Conference on General Relativity and Gravitation

Black holes do not obliterate information about things which fall into them, but mangle information instead. So says Stephen Hawking, backtracking on his own theory about black holes after 30 years.

The physicist was forced to concede a bet he made with American theoretical physicist John Preskill in 1997 as he unveiled his new theory on Wednesday. Preskill had doubted Hawking's theory that black holes destroy everything that falls into them. Hawking now says information can escape from within them.

He revealed his new theory to a packed auditorium at a conference in Dublin, ?Ireland on Wednesday. New Scientist broke the news on 14 July that Hawking, at the University of Cambridge, had changed his mind about black holes after solving a long-standing paradox in physics.

\"I want to report that I think I have solved a major problem in theoretical physics,\" announced Hawking as he described his solution to the black hole information paradox.

This paradox, ironically, stems from Hawking?s own work. In the 1970s he proved that black holes lose mass by emitting radiation and eventually evaporate altogether.

Science fiction

But this conflicted with the laws of quantum physics, which state that information about what fell into the black hole can never be completely wiped out. Hawking previously argued that the intense gravitational fields inside the black hole were unravelling the laws of quantum mechanics, possibly sending the information shooting off into other universes. Now he thinks the information simply leaks out back into our own Universe.

Hawking explains the implications. \"I?m sorry to disappoint science fiction fans, but if information is preserved, there is no possibility of using black holes to travel to other universes.

\"If you jump into a black hole, your mass energy will be returned to our Universe, but in a mangled form, which contains information about what you were like, but in an unrecognisable state.\"

In concluding that information escapes, Hawking?s views have come into line with ideas that other theorists have been pushing for years.

For example, if a black hole is modelled according to string theory ? in which the universe is made of tiny, vibrating strings rather than point-like particles ? there are pretty convincing arguments that say information can get out, according to Joseph Polchinski from the University of California in Santa Barbara, US.

Cricket alternative

\"We?re getting the same conclusions using some of the same tools,\" says ?Polchinski.

Hawking reached his solution by considering what happened to black holes of all different shapes and sizes after an infinite amount of time. He showed that the amount of information at the end was equal to the amount of information at the beginning, but said nothing about what happened to it in the middle.

Hawking also failed to completely convince Kip Thorne, a physicist from the California Institute of Technology, and his betting partner, that he had resolved the paradox.

But Hawking was ready to concede the bet that he and Thorne had made with Preskill. \"John is all American, so naturally he wants an encyclopaedia of baseball,\" said Hawking. \"I had great difficulty in finding one over here, so I offered him an encyclopaedia of cricket, as an alternative, but John wouldn't be persuaded of the superiority of cricket.\"

[/quote]

 

[K@t 5]

Re: John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

I thought in light of the turn of the conversation that this article might just be relevent. Keep in mind as well, no one thought we'd be able to harness the atom and look what we've done with that. Who can say that in a few more years we won't learn how to harness a black hole as well?

?Hawking concedes black hole bet

• 19:26 21 July 2004
• NewScientist.com news service
• Jenny Hogan, Dublin

Related Articles

• Hawking cracks black hole ?paradox
• 14 July 2004
• Massive black holes common ?in early Universe
• 02 June 2004
• Giant black hole caught ?devouring star
• 18 February 2004
• Search New Scientist
• Contact us

Web Links

• Stephen Hawking
• 17th ?International Conference on General Relativity and Gravitation

Black holes do not obliterate information about things which fall into them, but mangle information instead. So says Stephen Hawking, backtracking on his own theory about black holes after 30 years.

The physicist was forced to concede a bet he made with American theoretical physicist John Preskill in 1997 as he unveiled his new theory on Wednesday. Preskill had doubted Hawking's theory that black holes destroy everything that falls into them. Hawking now says information can escape from within them.

He revealed his new theory to a packed auditorium at a conference in Dublin, ?Ireland on Wednesday. New Scientist broke the news on 14 July that Hawking, at the University of Cambridge, had changed his mind about black holes after solving a long-standing paradox in physics.

\"I want to report that I think I have solved a major problem in theoretical physics,\" announced Hawking as he described his solution to the black hole information paradox.

This paradox, ironically, stems from Hawking?s own work. In the 1970s he proved that black holes lose mass by emitting radiation and eventually evaporate altogether.

Science fiction

But this conflicted with the laws of quantum physics, which state that information about what fell into the black hole can never be completely wiped out. Hawking previously argued that the intense gravitational fields inside the black hole were unravelling the laws of quantum mechanics, possibly sending the information shooting off into other universes. Now he thinks the information simply leaks out back into our own Universe.

Hawking explains the implications. \"I?m sorry to disappoint science fiction fans, but if information is preserved, there is no possibility of using black holes to travel to other universes.

\"If you jump into a black hole, your mass energy will be returned to our Universe, but in a mangled form, which contains information about what you were like, but in an unrecognisable state.\"

In concluding that information escapes, Hawking?s views have come into line with ideas that other theorists have been pushing for years.

For example, if a black hole is modelled according to string theory ? in which the universe is made of tiny, vibrating strings rather than point-like particles ? there are pretty convincing arguments that say information can get out, according to Joseph Polchinski from the University of California in Santa Barbara, US.

Cricket alternative

\"We?re getting the same conclusions using some of the same tools,\" says ?Polchinski.

Hawking reached his solution by considering what happened to black holes of all different shapes and sizes after an infinite amount of time. He showed that the amount of information at the end was equal to the amount of information at the beginning, but said nothing about what happened to it in the middle.

Hawking also failed to completely convince Kip Thorne, a physicist from the California Institute of Technology, and his betting partner, that he had resolved the paradox.

But Hawking was ready to concede the bet that he and Thorne had made with Preskill. \"John is all American, so naturally he wants an encyclopaedia of baseball,\" said Hawking. \"I had great difficulty in finding one over here, so I offered him an encyclopaedia of cricket, as an alternative, but John wouldn't be persuaded of the superiority of cricket.\"

[/quote]

 

[Harte]

Re: John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"K@t 5\")</div>

This paradox, ironically, stems from Hawking?s own work. In the 1970s he proved that black holes lose mass by emitting radiation and eventually evaporate altogether.
[/b]

This is what Hawking outlined in "A Brief History of Time." The radiation emitted was explained thusly. The quantum foam is constantly creating particles with their anti particles which destroy each other utterly. The black hole event horizon robs the foam of one of the particles in these pairs (the antiparticle) and the other escapes as the "radiation". The antiparticle is responsible for the "evaporation" of the microscopic black holes that were created during the big bang (and any other microsingularities created somewhere else, like CERN.)

 

[Harte]

Re: John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"K@t 5\")</div>

This paradox, ironically, stems from Hawking?s own work. In the 1970s he proved that black holes lose mass by emitting radiation and eventually evaporate altogether.
[/b]

This is what Hawking outlined in "A Brief History of Time." The radiation emitted was explained thusly. The quantum foam is constantly creating particles with their anti particles which destroy each other utterly. The black hole event horizon robs the foam of one of the particles in these pairs (the antiparticle) and the other escapes as the "radiation". The antiparticle is responsible for the "evaporation" of the microscopic black holes that were created during the big bang (and any other microsingularities created somewhere else, like CERN.)