minuteman project and Waco type events thread

[sinister]

Re: Waco-Type events (Reloaded)

I have a feeling there are some very strong movements developing that I just don't have any exposure to. The media has become so terribly distorted, you just can't hope to hear about stuff like this. Perhaps this is for the better, although I don't agree on all points with members of this movement, it is good to see evidence that there is one. Our country desperately needs a resurgency of people willing to make a stand and make their voice heard. Everything seems so locked down in the media lately.

 

[Darkwolf]

Re: Waco-Type events (Reloaded)

What's a real nightmare for the officers that are forced to shoot is when they find out the departed had no bullets in the gun. __________________

I have that nightmare every couple of weeks, usually it turns out to be a squirt gun or something.

 

[Judge Bean]

Re: Waco-Type events (Reloaded)

Certainly qualifies for Titor's catalog of an increasing number of "Waco, Ruby Ridge, Elian Gonzalez" type events.

More "Ruby Ridge" than the other two, really. And remember that Titor said that the media coverage should be similar to that of these three events.

 

[sinister]

Re: Waco-Type events (Reloaded)

the 'waco-type' events has always been a somewhat vague prediction, and as March goes by some seem to think this disproves Titor's escalating series of events. People take that quote too literally in my opinion, and what I've seen just in this thread is pretty much exactly what I have been looking for in escalating events that suggest violations of our civil rights. Not only that, but it's only March. If these escalate and continue in frequency, we could have a very bad situation on our hands easilly by the end of 2005. This thread has been fantastic in that it clearly shows an escalation of intensity around these events.

 

[Darkwolf]

Re: Waco-Type events (Reloaded)

Authorities decided to force an end to the standoff on the afternoon of July 8, using armored vehicles on loan from the Michigan National Guard to approach Woodring's house so that percussion grenades could be launched into the building. Two grenades were detonated, shortly after which the building caught fire and was rocked by explosions.

Paul, I'd actually call that Waco type lack of media coverage nonwithstanding. Note the use of armored vehicles, and pyrotechnics to start a structure fire. Obviously an attempt to kill rather than to apperhend the guy.
The target made it similar to ruby ridge. He was a member of a pro individual rights movement who was trying to involve himself in local politics with some level of sucess.

 

[DadOf5]

Re: Waco-Type events (Reloaded)

Actually Darkwolf, there was quite a lot of media coverage, albeit local. Remember that this is a very small community that we?re talking about. The national and cable networks aren?t much interested in things that go on around here. You can find most of the local coverage here,



http://www.woodtv.com/Global/SearchResults...g&Submit=Search



This will bring up pretty much all of the local coverage, but this article here,



http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?s=1892048



is an investigation of the whole incident run by one of the local news stations and sums things up pretty well.



The part of this whole thing that really gets me is that this was all started over his ?attempt to solicit a minor?. From what I understand, this consisted of him asking a local girl to ?put some clothes on because she looked like a whore?. Not the kind of thing you serve an arrest warrant over, I think.



So, lets look at this a little further. Woodring was a member of the Michigan Milita, he was an activist in local politics, speaking out against bigger government, government controls, and tax increases, he was a tax protester, he had several tickets for failing to register his vehicle so he rode a bicycle everywhere he went (you don?t have to register those?yet). In my opinion the guy was labeled an anti-government kook before any of this took place and the PTB were looking for an excuse to put him away. To rid themselves of a nuisance. Well, they did.



Some things that weren?t fully covered in the news at the time were the so-called percussion grenade that was launched into the house. This was no small explosion. I remember watching this happen on the news and seeing the roof of a fairly nice, probably 1200 square foot home rise about four inches off the walls when the device exploded. The use of this ?percussion grenade? was not an attempt to disable a person, it was an attempt to kill a person. Another thing you?ll never hear about is that Woodring believed house insurance to be a gov?t scam and refused to have it. This left his widow with a burnt down house, a dead husband, and no way to recoup her losses. You also won?t hear about how the LEOs used this burnt down house as a trash pit for all of their fast food wrappers during the search for Woodring. You also won?t hear about the condition of his body after being shot some 32 times in the back of the head and upper back by 8 LEOs with assorted pistols, rifles, and 12 gauge shotguns loaded with buckshot.



I?m not trying to run down all LEOs here. I realize and fully agree that the LEOs need to defend themselves and keep themselves safe. The problem is that this was mishandled from the outset and kept escalating.



I didn?t know Woodring personally. I have worked with his widow and her brother for the last 7 years, I also went to school with the sister-in-law that was interviewed during the investigation. I?ve known his in-laws for many, many years. They?re a good family with a solid reputation around here. But, I suppose that if you get labeled a kook, you could be in for this kind of treatment as well.

 

[CaryP]

Re: Waco-Type events (Reloaded)

Thanks for all the infomation Dado. Yep, I'd say this definitely qualifies as a Waco type event, just with a lot less bodies than the original. I wonder how many other of these incidents aren't being covered by the national media over the last few years. As for as being labelled a "kook" I guess I'm starting to skate on thin ice. I'm not politically active and I don't belong to any militia groups, but speaking out about what's going on in the US govt. and world today sure has some of the people I know thinking I'm in the "kook" categorey. If I suddenly "disappear" from here might want to search for local news in south Louisiana. LOL Just kidding. I don't think I've made the radar screen with any federalies yet.

Cary

 

[Zoomerz]

Re: Waco-Type events (Reloaded)

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't JT's prediction say "waco-type events" would begin in late 2004, and escalate in 2005? Maybe I'm just a johnny-come-lately to this thread and have no business posting at all, heh! Anyway, from what I've read of JT's actual posts (which I've read front to back), the "mood for revolution" that he "implied" just doesn't seem to be taking root. At least, not in the "norm" of society. Only on the fringes, and that's been the case for MANY years.

What I don't see is people currently being "denied their rights" outside of the realm of terrorism. I am extremely wary of the Patriot Act, and it's potential (probable) reduction of our constitutional rights, and I'm also very distrustful of this administration, and the role of government itself. BUT, I don't think we should try to portray these "fringe" occurrences as "proof" of anything. They are not "examples" of how we're losing our rights. They only prove (MHO) that there continues to be those that somehow get lost on the fringe of society, attribute EVERY occurrence to some "master evil plan", and refuse to accept the will of the majority.

Yes, we ARE losing our rights, but that time has not yet come when those that are ruling "cement" their authority by actually USING their treacherous legislation to truly violate a "non-terrorist's" rights. That is coming in the future, when needed, not now.

Watch for conservative judges sometime in the future to "interpret" PA legislation, and use it to set precedent. THAT's when we'll really be in trouble. (again, MHO).

Z-

 

[CaryP]

Re: Waco-Type events (Reloaded)

Well Zoomerz, this new "intelligence" wing of the Pentagon might be the thing to really kick the Waco events into high gear. Of course their operations will be deep under cover, so some people might just go missing without much fan fare. Read the whole article. It'll raise the hairs on the back of your neck.

Cary

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/T.../06/922316.html

[font=Geneva, Arial] ? ?Sun, February ?6, 2005 ?
[/font] [font=Geneva, Arial]Paranoia grips the U.S. capital
[/font]
? ?[font=Geneva, Arial]By Eric Margolis -- Contributing Foreign Editor[/font] ?[font=Geneva, Arial] ? ? ? ? ? ?

? ? ?[/font] <span style='color:#000000'>The film Seven Days In May is one of my all-time favourites. The gripping 1964 drama, starring Burt Lancaster, depicts an attempted coup by far rightists in Washington using a top-secret Pentagon anti-terrorist unit called something like \\"Contelinpro.\\" </span>

<span style='color:#000000'>Life imitates art. This week, former military intelligence analyst William Arkin revealed a hitherto unknown directive, with the Orwellian name \\"JCS Conplan 0300-97,\\" authorizing the Pentagon to employ special, ultra-secret \\"anti-terrorist\\" military units on American soil for what the author claims are \\"extra-legal missions.\\" </span>

[font=Geneva, Arial]In other words, using U.S. soldiers to kill or arrest Americans, acts that have been illegal since the U.S. Civil War. ? ?
http://ads5.canoe.ca/event.ng/Type=count&C...N,bbdqznwbvKwxa
? ? ?[/font]

[font=Geneva, Arial]This frightening news comes as Washington is gripped by reborn, Cold-War-style paranoia, ominous threats of war against Iran from the real president, Dick Cheney, and a titanic bureaucratic battle just won by Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. [/font]

<span style='color:#000000'>Instead of being fired for the grotesque military-political fiasco in Iraq and the shameful torture scandals, Rumsfeld has just managed to create a new, Pentagon spy/special ops organization, blandly named \\"Strategic Support Branch,\\" that will replace or duplicate many of the CIA's tasks. </span>

[font=Geneva, Arial]The CIA has been sent to the doghouse. Too many CIA veterans criticized or contradicted Bush's and Cheney's phony claims over Iraq and terrorism. So Bush has imposed a new, yes-man director on the agency, slashed its budgets, purged its senior officers, and downgraded CIA to third-class status. [/font]

[font=Geneva, Arial]Rumsfeld's new, massively funded SSB will become the Pentagon's CIA, complete with commando units, spies, mercenary forces, intelligence gathering and analysis, and a direct line to the White House. The Pentagon has just effectively taken over the spy business. [/font]

[font=Geneva, Arial]Used terrorism hysteria ? ? [/font]

<span style='color:#000000'>Mind you, the Pentagon and its Defence Intelligence Agency have been deeply involved in intelligence around the globe for 50 years. U.S. Army intelligence and its covert sub-branches have long conducted \\"black ops,\\" including missions in the U.S. as well as assassinations and sabotage abroad. The Pentagon consumes three-quarters of the total U.S. intelligence budget. </span>

[font=Geneva, Arial]Rumsfeld has skillfully used terrorism hysteria to wrest control of intelligence and make the Pentagon supreme in Washington's bureaucratic power struggles. [/font]

<span style='color:#000000'>The Pentagon's new spy arm will be largely excluded from Congressional oversight or media examination. Its special operations teams will roam the globe, all under cover of \\"deep black\\" missions of which no records will be kept, and no questions asked. </span>

<span style='color:#000000'>Equally worrying, the Pentagon's new special-ops units are headed up by notorious religious fanatic, Lt. Gen. William Boykin, who calls the U.S. Army \\"the house of God\\" and Islamic insurgents \\"agents of Satan.\\" He warned Muslims, \\"my God is bigger than your god, which is an idol.\\" </span>

[font=Geneva, Arial]Boykin's command will now dispatch post-modern Christian crusaders to cleanse the world of Satanic Muslims and other miscreants. The Pentagon's new special forces will be able to run operations of which the CIA knows nothing. [/font]

[font=Geneva, Arial]The 9/11 Commission called for improved intra-agency co-operation and data sharing -- instead, the U.S. will get far less co-operation, as the Pentagon goes its own, secret way. [/font]

<span style='color:#000000'>Now, George W. Bush, who clearly believes he holds the mandate of heaven after being re-elected by the less mentally active half of American voters, has decided to \\"unleash\\" special forces and all sorts of irregular units, including mercenaries, uniformed bounty hunters, and mutants sporting t-shirts proclaiming \\"kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out.\\" These militarized thugs and video arcade Rambos are sure to run amok, dragging America's once good name ever deeper into the mud. </span>

[font=Geneva, Arial]We have evidently learned nothing from the wars in Indochina and Central America. ? ? [/font]

[font=Geneva, Arial]Have we reached Seven Days in May? ? ? ?[/font]

[font=Geneva, Arial]Not yet, but the second Bush administration has been taking dangerous steps that continue to curtail personal rights, further emasculate the supine, cowardly U.S. Congress, and empower ideological or religious extremists and shadowy agencies with unrestrained powers that endanger Americans at home, and all abroad suspected of troubling the Pax Americana. [/font] ?

 

[Crosstika]

Re: Waco-Type events (Reloaded)

I saw this on another time travel board, looks like a potential Waco...




The Texas Prophecy - A Special Report
Feb. 17, 2005

John Hollenhorst Reporting

The biggest drain on the FLDS bank account in recent weeks is a seemingly frenzied construction project on a remote ranch in Texas. It's believed to be the first polygamist temple and it's setting off alarm bells. John Hollenhorst flew over the site in West Texas and brings us the exclusive story.


It's not just the spending that has people worried. It's the astounding speed of the project. Some believe Warren Jeffs has created a dangerous atmosphere by setting a deadline: his own "Texas Prophesy" of the end of the world.

The temple looms over Texas ranchland, as tall as a seven-story building and big enough to hold an enormous congregation.

Sam Brower, Private Detective: ?It think that Warren Jeffs is thinking that this is the New Jerusalem. He?s building the temple there.?

When the secretive FLDS church bought the property and named it Yearning For Zion, they said they were planning a hunting retreat.


Randy Mankin, Owner-Editor, "The Eldorado Success": ?They lied to us about the purpose they were coming here for.?

FLDS members are doing the construction. And they're quarrying huge blocks of limestone. The round-the-clock pace is startling.

On New Year's Day, when free-lance writer Jon Krakauer flew over and took two pictures, the temple was just a rectangular outline. His first photo shows some sort of ceremony, possibly led by Warren Jeffs. In the second photo the faithful had closed ranks to hide the leader. Just five weeks later, the temple looked much more complete.

Sam Brower: ?They?re driven. They?re driven to get it done quick and they?re doing it.?

Private detective Sam Brower says Jeffs set an apocalyptic deadline, the 175th anniversary of the founding of the Mormon Church.

Sam Brower: ?According to my sources, the end of the world is going to happen, once again, according to Warren, on April 6th. That?s what they?re shooting for.?

Newspaper editor Randy Mankin has been monitoring progress and comparing it with the 1840's Mormon temple in Nauvoo, Illinois. It's a close match, right down to the plumbing for a baptismal font. He says local opinion in Eldorado runs the gamut.


Randy Mankin: ?One extreme of ?leave them alone and let them do what they want; it?s not affecting me,? to the other extreme of, ?Well let?s go kick the doors in and drag them out and burn the buildings down.? And there?s every shade of gray in the spectrum in between.?

Anti-polygamy activists like Sam Brower have raised the specter of another Waco, or another Jonestown. But the local sheriff downplays the worry.

Sheriff David Doran, Schleicher County, Texas: ?No, I don?t expect trouble. We?ve got good lines of communication with them. We?re talking to them on a regular basis.?

But as the temple has been growing, storm clouds have been brewing--legal troubles that could someday bring law enforcement there, to the ?Ggates of Zion.?

Lawsuits are pending against Jeffs for child sexual abuse and racketeering. Lawyers and former members are closing in on his assets. Criminal charges are under investigation. Jeffs himself has fired his lawyers and stopped defending church interests in court.

Sam Brower: ?And he feels that God is going to defend them. And that?s his own words.?

Sheriff David Doran: ?With a good line of communication we can come to a peaceful resolution, no matter what. That?s what we want to work towards anyway.?

The sheriff says it appears the Texas ranch is now FLDS church headquarters. It's not clear what that means for followers left behind in Hildale, Utah and Colorado City Arizona. Just as the move to Texas got underway last year, Jeffs began thinning the flock, ousting unworthy members. Perhaps it's no coincidence

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=151440