minuteman project and Waco type events thread
Forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn or (re)threading once it seems that the next few posts left this idea... but I'd like to put some ideas in here, too.
I was in Waco during the whole event there. I remember reading the Waco Tribune-Herald's 'Sinful Messiah' articles leading up to it all... and when reading them, I remember the nagging feeling that 'something was about to happen'. It was like the public was being groomed to accept the fact that something had to be done.
My mother taught at a daycare that had some of the 'Koresh kids'. One of my best friends took guitar lessons at 'Lone Star Music' where Koresh frequented. (I knew the owner of the place, too.) I was close associates with McLennan County Sheriff 'Bubba Dodd' because of my job then... and the Texas Rangers were one of my clients. (Bear with me... I'm just trying to set this up a bit...)
I worked for an electronics firm that was used for some of the equipment that was utilized for the [what I call] psyOps... the sound system and lights used constantly outside the 'compound'... presumably intended to drive the people out of the building or at least into submission.
(That's about all of the detail I will go into about that...
)
Waco isn't much different than any other small town, really. It's not *that* small, but it kind of has that feel to it. It has a decent-sized population, but you quickly know just about everyone one way or another.
I'm trying to build in you, as you read this, the sense that 'things seemed very normal' leading up to the beginning of this tragedy. This is my perspective as someone living, working, and socializing in Waco. No one, it seemed, felt any kind of threat from this group. I could go into the whole firearms argument here, but that's been hashed over sooo many times, that I think we all know what was what. Let's just say that the weapons they had were nothing too different from what many others had and still have in Central Texas.
IMHO, the "press' was used as a great tool for building a justification for the events that followed. These actions seemed to come from nowhere and seemed to involve all kinds of agencies... like the FBI, BATF, Child Protective Services, etc. etc.
The hard part to swallow during this whole thing was what happened to our town. The local authorities in Waco and McLennan County were taken out of the loop and mostly forced into a background role... even though they were best equipped for a peaceful solution to the whole thing.
Don't think I am defending the culture that Koresh tried to live in or that he created. From what I do know of the life inside the group, something had to be done to care for some of those involved... but at a local level.
Everything moved so fast. Nothing made sense... or at least you really couldn't connect the dots fast enough, for new dots kept getting added to the picture.
I remember sitting at my service bench thinking about the whole mess and pondering that it seems that just a few miles away, there's a major, historical thing happening. But it didn't make any sense.
(Walk out into your driveway and take a good look around your neighborhood. Now imagine knowing that 6 miles 'that way', just past the horizon, there's a massive buildup of force and you have no clue as to why.)
Waco seemed to have a cloud over it at the time. It seemed that we lost our town... especially with the press characterizing us in such odd ways... and with the government camped out, handling the matter. Folks didn't talk about it all that much, either. There was [looking back now] an alarmingly quiet attitude in the locals. *That* was submission. We could do nothing really.
Still, in me, is a sense of 'maybe that wasn't really what the whole purpose was'... meaning, did Koresh and his group's actions really warrant what happened there?
Here's what, to me, is a Waco event:
1 - Something is brought to the attention of authorities on a federal level.
(alternate step 1) 1 - The federal authorities become aware of something at the local level that they can use as a smoke-screen by getting involved.
2 - The press is used for distributing information about this 'something' as a means to conduct a public opinion/reaction litmus test.
3 - During #2, plans for handling the situation are drawn up and discussed. Guage the public reaction to #2 and decide how 'covertly' the action needs to handled. (Is the press our friend?)
4 - Start the character assassination of those targets in #2 as an ongoing justification of the operation.
5 - Remove local law authorities from the scene at all costs.
6 - Use the press by giving them only the communications you approve during the operation and sever any communications with the outside world from any other parties involved. (information control.)
7 - Do whatever else you want wherever the focus of the world is not... hence, anywhere but the focus of the operation.
8 - prepare an exit strategy
9 - End the operation
Looking back at my list, you can sum it all up as 'sleight of hand'. Yep. It's that simple. The only difference is when it is the government that is involved, it isn't a simple card trick... it's a seemingly major event with a lot of force. This begs for your full attention to the buildup... the suspense... the ending. You're focused while something else, somewhere else is taking place.
I don't think the issue behind a Waco-like event is simply the suppression of dissent or a battle against our 2nd Amendment Rights or anything like that. Sure, those arguments can be made and they are valid points in the observation of what all was going on... I just don't think they are the root of 'why' it happened. Waco, IMHO, was a diversion.
Do I have any clue what that 'something else' could have been with the Waco event? Nope. I was in Waco and focused on what was happening in my town. I fell for it, I suppose.
However, I think our 'collective awareness' got tweaked as a result of Waco. I don't think the government could stage another event like this in the same way if it wanted to. I think we'd all be too watchful for it. There's something about being reminded of the Posse Comitatus Act that makes you not want to let it happen again.
So, if we're talking about JT's supposed future Waco-like happenings, they would almost have to be more subtle and more tricky. They would surely have to be smaller in scale than Waco and not take the whole world's attention for so long. There are too many whistleblowers now. We all woke up a bit since Waco.
... or perhaps it would have to be even bigger and more absurd.
Forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn or (re)threading once it seems that the next few posts left this idea... but I'd like to put some ideas in here, too.
I was in Waco during the whole event there. I remember reading the Waco Tribune-Herald's 'Sinful Messiah' articles leading up to it all... and when reading them, I remember the nagging feeling that 'something was about to happen'. It was like the public was being groomed to accept the fact that something had to be done.
My mother taught at a daycare that had some of the 'Koresh kids'. One of my best friends took guitar lessons at 'Lone Star Music' where Koresh frequented. (I knew the owner of the place, too.) I was close associates with McLennan County Sheriff 'Bubba Dodd' because of my job then... and the Texas Rangers were one of my clients. (Bear with me... I'm just trying to set this up a bit...)
I worked for an electronics firm that was used for some of the equipment that was utilized for the [what I call] psyOps... the sound system and lights used constantly outside the 'compound'... presumably intended to drive the people out of the building or at least into submission.
(That's about all of the detail I will go into about that...
)Waco isn't much different than any other small town, really. It's not *that* small, but it kind of has that feel to it. It has a decent-sized population, but you quickly know just about everyone one way or another.
I'm trying to build in you, as you read this, the sense that 'things seemed very normal' leading up to the beginning of this tragedy. This is my perspective as someone living, working, and socializing in Waco. No one, it seemed, felt any kind of threat from this group. I could go into the whole firearms argument here, but that's been hashed over sooo many times, that I think we all know what was what. Let's just say that the weapons they had were nothing too different from what many others had and still have in Central Texas.
IMHO, the "press' was used as a great tool for building a justification for the events that followed. These actions seemed to come from nowhere and seemed to involve all kinds of agencies... like the FBI, BATF, Child Protective Services, etc. etc.
The hard part to swallow during this whole thing was what happened to our town. The local authorities in Waco and McLennan County were taken out of the loop and mostly forced into a background role... even though they were best equipped for a peaceful solution to the whole thing.
Don't think I am defending the culture that Koresh tried to live in or that he created. From what I do know of the life inside the group, something had to be done to care for some of those involved... but at a local level.
Everything moved so fast. Nothing made sense... or at least you really couldn't connect the dots fast enough, for new dots kept getting added to the picture.
I remember sitting at my service bench thinking about the whole mess and pondering that it seems that just a few miles away, there's a major, historical thing happening. But it didn't make any sense.
(Walk out into your driveway and take a good look around your neighborhood. Now imagine knowing that 6 miles 'that way', just past the horizon, there's a massive buildup of force and you have no clue as to why.)
Waco seemed to have a cloud over it at the time. It seemed that we lost our town... especially with the press characterizing us in such odd ways... and with the government camped out, handling the matter. Folks didn't talk about it all that much, either. There was [looking back now] an alarmingly quiet attitude in the locals. *That* was submission. We could do nothing really.
Still, in me, is a sense of 'maybe that wasn't really what the whole purpose was'... meaning, did Koresh and his group's actions really warrant what happened there?
Here's what, to me, is a Waco event:
1 - Something is brought to the attention of authorities on a federal level.
(alternate step 1) 1 - The federal authorities become aware of something at the local level that they can use as a smoke-screen by getting involved.
2 - The press is used for distributing information about this 'something' as a means to conduct a public opinion/reaction litmus test.
3 - During #2, plans for handling the situation are drawn up and discussed. Guage the public reaction to #2 and decide how 'covertly' the action needs to handled. (Is the press our friend?)
4 - Start the character assassination of those targets in #2 as an ongoing justification of the operation.
5 - Remove local law authorities from the scene at all costs.
6 - Use the press by giving them only the communications you approve during the operation and sever any communications with the outside world from any other parties involved. (information control.)
7 - Do whatever else you want wherever the focus of the world is not... hence, anywhere but the focus of the operation.
8 - prepare an exit strategy
9 - End the operation
Looking back at my list, you can sum it all up as 'sleight of hand'. Yep. It's that simple. The only difference is when it is the government that is involved, it isn't a simple card trick... it's a seemingly major event with a lot of force. This begs for your full attention to the buildup... the suspense... the ending. You're focused while something else, somewhere else is taking place.
I don't think the issue behind a Waco-like event is simply the suppression of dissent or a battle against our 2nd Amendment Rights or anything like that. Sure, those arguments can be made and they are valid points in the observation of what all was going on... I just don't think they are the root of 'why' it happened. Waco, IMHO, was a diversion.
Do I have any clue what that 'something else' could have been with the Waco event? Nope. I was in Waco and focused on what was happening in my town. I fell for it, I suppose.
However, I think our 'collective awareness' got tweaked as a result of Waco. I don't think the government could stage another event like this in the same way if it wanted to. I think we'd all be too watchful for it. There's something about being reminded of the Posse Comitatus Act that makes you not want to let it happen again.
So, if we're talking about JT's supposed future Waco-like happenings, they would almost have to be more subtle and more tricky. They would surely have to be smaller in scale than Waco and not take the whole world's attention for so long. There are too many whistleblowers now. We all woke up a bit since Waco.
... or perhaps it would have to be even bigger and more absurd.
