Pattern? maybe civil unrest, proof?

[August]

Pattern? maybe civil unrest, proof?

Darkwolf and company,

The fact that we are squeezing theory, fact, and history into exchanges on an internet forum is a necessary absurdity. For some reason I must also participate in this. And Darkwolf something you will not learn in the Academy about civil strife is this: we never see it coming. The professors skip that because it calls their powers into question.

Our feeble attempts at predicting the face of what Titor predicted irritates me; I have stomached so many generalizations over the last few weeks, I am starting to think the globe is populated by types and not by human beings. Here is a bit of news for the world--America is populated with such a diverse set of people, so many stories so similar and so different, so many hopes similar and different--what makes you think the variety of possible futures is anything predictable?

 

[Darkwolf]

Pattern? maybe civil unrest, proof?

[/QUOTE]And Darkwolf something you will not learn in the Academy about civil strife is this: we never see it coming. The professors skip that because it calls their powers into question.

Nope, but I did learn that one in college. August, no major conflict came out of the blue. Most of them could be speculated about years in advance. Who the parties would be if not, exactly when where or how they will actually flare up. The individualist vs. statist problem in this country has been on the burner for a long time.

 

[Judge Bean]

Pattern? maybe civil unrest, proof?

Originally posted by Darkwolf@Nov 9 2004, 10:19 PM

Just heard that a man from Georgia killed himself on Ground Zero to protest against Bush reelection

I don't think we can really say that since he didn't leave a note, and isn't talking about it much.

​

"They said that I died of the fever, but I knowed that was a lie the minute I heard it." --Davy Crockett

 

[Judge Bean]

Pattern? maybe civil unrest, proof?

Originally posted by PyRo99@Nov 9 2004, 10:17 PM
Oh, how you'd be surprised. Ohio is Intellectual, as well as the rest of the states, chosing a President, is not something that is done, year by year. So, your choice of vote, has nothing to do whether or not you're level of intelligence is high, or low.

Hell, all liberals preside in those states, hence why they went Kerry. Hippies live there, so many big cities. They ALWAYS vote Democrat.

​

We still got Hippies? I aint seen one of them in a spell.

 

[StarLord]

Pattern? maybe civil unrest, proof?

The college senarion reminds me of correcting a teacher ONCE. Regarding the 'accepted' version of Pearl Harbor. By blockading the Japan islands, the US caused them selves to be bombed as the fleet responsible for that was based in Hawaii. They(America) were aware that this was going to happen and knew that this would be the response, thus forcing Japan to attack. the 'day of infamy' started the very first day we blockaded Japan, months earlier, not on Dec 7th.

The response was typical and it was taken as a personal attack. Funny how knowledge can do that to a teacher. I learned there and then that I had to learn two sets of information. The one that was parroted back to get the grades and the one that I kept for myself. Whats more, if you took the time to research at the library, oftimes you found mistakes in texts. So I have to agree that what is being taught in schools these days is not something I would want to keep for very long.

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

Pattern? maybe civil unrest, proof?

Originally posted by Paul J. Lyon+Nov 9 2004, 06:35 PM--><div class='quotemain'>We still got Hippies? I aint seen one of them in a spell.

​

[/b]

I've seen a bunch of them wandering around outside my apartment complex. One of em was sleeping in the laundry room the other day. They're around Okay, well maybe those are just bums, but that's what happens to hippies who are naughty.


<!--QuoteBegin-StarLord@Nov 9 2004, 06:46 PM
The college senarion reminds me of correcting a teacher ONCE. Regarding the 'accepted' version of Pearl Harbor. By blockading the Japan islands, the US caused them selves to be bombed as the fleet responsible for that was based in Hawaii. They(America) were aware that this was going to happen and knew that this would be the response, thus forcing Japan to attack. the 'day of infamy' started the very first day we blockaded Japan, months earlier, not on Dec 7th.

The response was typical and it was taken as a personal attack. Funny how knowledge can do that to a teacher. I learned there and then that I had to learn two sets of information. The one that was parroted back to get the grades and the one that I kept for myself. Whats more, if you took the time to research at the library, oftimes you found mistakes in texts. So I have to agree that what is being taught in schools these days is not something I would want to keep for very long.

[snapback]14691[/snapback]​

[/quote]

I agree with you 100% There's things I learned all through school that I knew from my own experience were absolutely false. One of them being the Pearl Harbor thing.

 

[Judge Bean]

Pattern? maybe civil unrest, proof?

We killed more Japanese civilians than we did soldiers, mostly by incendiary bombing. We killed more by firebombing than with the two atomic bombs.

Gen. Curtis LeMay seems to have been the one in charge of the extensive use of napalm against civilian populations. He ran for Vice President once.

I doubt the standard history texts cover this.

 

[August]

Pattern? maybe civil unrest, proof?

Darkwolf,

In, I think it was 1990, students stormed a police station in East Germany--on the other side of town, an East German agent sat outside the apartment of a suspected "troublemaker". The agent took notes. Suspect turned on light at 8pm...Suspect moving about apartment...Suspect greeted one visitor...you get the picture.

My point is this: your set of associates sees the divisions and possibilities as does my set. The students who stormed that station saw it coming. But in 1992 there were thousands of professors of Soviet Studies who, with cancelled book contracts in hand, looked to their spouses and said, "What happened?"

You said,

no major conflict came out of the blue. Most of them could be speculated about years in advance.

And with this I think your view of history is very different from mine. "could be speculated about" yes. Were they? And acted upon? no. You see, world history can be summed up as a long list of surprises. Informed people like you are not surprised, but we can sum up the past 2000 years of history with a handful of surprises. They sound something like this...

But they were so few and only barbarians...
But I thought he was a child rogue, not a leader...
How could they have made that distance in such time...
But I am the anointed one...
I thought our fleet was the finest and best equipped...
But I thought you said the military would never side with the students...
Why did they not meet us on the field, like soldiers...
He is the last one who would succeed him; he is but a common criminal...

These surprises are the best reasons to study history. History is naturally ironic. Fun, no? And we may even limit the surprises if we study hard. Past is prologue.

And even the Titor hoaxer was a student of surprises:

"Unfortunately, I have decided not to discuss events that you or I can do anything about. It is important that they be a surprise. Perhaps you are familiar with the story of the Red Sea and the Egyptians?"

"However, I submit to you that when the moment comes it will be absolutely plain as day that you are unsafe in the cities. The millions people that stay will choose to stay. That's what comes as a surprise."

 

[Judge Bean]

Pattern? maybe civil unrest, proof?

Originally posted by August@Nov 10 2004, 11:54 AM
Darkwolf,

In, I think it was 1990, students stormed a police station in East Germany--on the other side of town, an East German agent sat outside the apartment of a suspected \"troublemaker\". The agent took notes. Suspect turned on light at 8pm...Suspect moving about apartment...Suspect greeted one visitor...you get the picture.

My point is this: your set of associates sees the divisions and possibilities as does my set. The students who stormed that station saw it coming. But in 1992 there were thousands of professors of Soviet Studies who, with cancelled book contracts in hand, looked to their spouses and said, \"What happened?\"

You said,

no major conflict came out of the blue. Most of them could be speculated about years in advance.

And with this I think your view of history is very different from mine. "could be speculated about" yes. Were they? And acted upon? no. You see, world history can be summed up as a long list of surprises. Informed people like you are not surprised, but we can sum up the past 2000 years of history with a handful of surprises. They sound something like this...

But they were so few and only barbarians...
But I thought he was a child rogue, not a leader...
How could they have made that distance in such time...
But I am the anointed one...
I thought our fleet was the finest and best equipped...
But I thought you said the military would never side with the students...
Why did they not meet us on the field, like soldiers...
He is the last one who would succeed him; he is but a common criminal...

These surprises are the best reasons to study history. History is naturally ironic. Fun, no? And we may even limit the surprises if we study hard. Past is prologue.

And even the Titor hoaxer was a student of surprises:

"Unfortunately, I have decided not to discuss events that you or I can do anything about. It is important that they be a surprise. Perhaps you are familiar with the story of the Red Sea and the Egyptians?"

"However, I submit to you that when the moment comes it will be absolutely plain as day that you are unsafe in the cities. The millions people that stay will choose to stay. That's what comes as a surprise."

​

"Where did all these Indians come from?" (Montana, 1876)

"I think we can hold this place." (San Antonio, 1836)

"They will break in the center." (Pennsylvania, 1863)

"Home by Christmas." (Belgium, 1944)

 

[Cornelia]

Pattern? maybe civil unrest, proof?

"Mission accomplished." :lol: