Political dueling ground

Anoah

Member
Messages
201
Political dueling ground

Hmmmmm.

Dad of five, I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are doing at all. You guys seem like a nice family to me. I struggle to raise two little babies since I lost hubby and I know its not easy. I am not totally against social programs. That would be a bit hypocritical since I now live in the UK and enjoy free health care and no cost prescriptions because I have a baby. It is an eye opener for an American like me.

When Bush made his tax cuts, he only gave back to the rich what they put into the system. They pay the vast majority of the tax.

I think I may have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about this because I really think the US is rich enough to cut taxes massively all around and still help people that are actually struggling (not sponging).

I didn't mean my post to be inflammatory, Im just interested in hearing opinions all around about this.
 

Snow

Member
Messages
469
Political dueling ground

Oh my! Don't get me started! I should run from this topic and keep my politics to myself - but that's not my style. Here I go - feet first . . .

I believe that in the future, if there is one, Capitalism will be seen as the great evil that nearly destroyed planet.

The world is becomming very small indeed. You don't have to look very hard to see the inequity and the injustice of systems that benefit the few and leave the many lacking even the very basics of life. We don't have much trouble seeing that it is incredibly unfair for children to be dying of starvation in third world countries - that's easy - MOST feeling people respond to that emotionally. But do they do anything?

Since when and how did it come to pass that it is okay for some to amass great wealth while others don't have water or medicine? My personal belief is that a great redistribtution is in order. I can even get some people to agree with me. Then when they realize that it would mean they only get to have one car or maybe just a bicycle, they start to back up. What about a world where you didn't work for "pay" but for the community? What about a world where you had everything you needed but not much more and the trade off was that every single being had the same? Who among us would give up most of what they have to make sure that others have their needs met? It is a bitter pill and almost noone wants to swallow it. We can see the problem easily but we can't find it in ourselves to actually do the right thing.

Capitalism is a selfish, earth-raping beast that is based on the exploitation of people and resources for profit. The saddest thing is that we have come to see it as something completely different - we practically worship it. WE got our cheap food and shoes while some Latin American or Chinese works for a dollar a day so that Krogers and Nike can make a profit. It only looks good from here. From there it looks like what it is. EVIL.

Why should those who have a lot be taxed to help those who have little? Well - I think you know MY answer . . .

From the edge or maybe a little beyond . . .

Snow Fire Watches
 

Anoah

Member
Messages
201
Political dueling ground

You make a good point Snow. I do feel it is a sick sick world when parents watch their babies die from lack of medicine that is readily available else where; meanwhile J Lo spends 15,000 dollars on a pair of shoes when she already has 900,000 pairs. That enrages me.

I would happily give up every material thing I own, and walk to work barefoot and wear a potato sack everyday if it would feed every hungry person. Should I respect the feelings and rights of someone else who wants to amass as much as possible and not share? What do you all think?
 

Cornelia

Member
Messages
234
Political dueling ground

Anoah,
I simply think that free healthcare and free education is an human right. Exactly like freedom. A civilized country must offer to people this right, that's all... and I don't care if the man in the surgery room is a lazy idiot or the smartest businessman. He's enjoying his rights.
I'm very proud that, in my country, when an illegal immigrant becomes ill he can go in a hospital and get cures without even being asked his name. Maybe our hospital are not that fancy (some are, anyway) but doctors are best and machines and drugs too.
When I was at school (I was in a middle class area), I had in my classroom children from working class and children of CEOs, children of waiters and children of journalists and politician leader. One of my friends was the daughter of the Attorney General. Another lived in a 2 rooms house and her mother was a nurse. This environment gave us an open mind, and teached us far more than teachers did!
If a country believes in this human right, then we all must pay in order to get it. And if I get 10 I'll pay 3, but if you get 100 then you'll pay 50. The remaining 50 is still far far better than my remaining 7... because you do better in your work.

(PS Hope you understood something! :cry:)
 

DadOf5

Member
Messages
292
Political dueling ground

Originally posted by Anoah@Jun 23 2004, 11:07 AM
I didn't mean my post to be inflammatory, Im just interested in hearing opinions all around about this.
No, and I didn't take it that way, sorry :) Quite often when I post in a hurry, as I did here, I sound quite terse, and I don't meant to be. For the forseeable future, I'm going to be in a bit of a hurry, so let me put in a general disclaimer for all. Unless I specifically state, "OK, you've really got me riled now" or something to that effect, I mean no harm. :p

I'll try to post a little more on this topic tonight, when I get home.
 

Cornelia

Member
Messages
234
Political dueling ground

Anoah,
we all must give up some rights in order to get/share/give other rights. What about my right to keep the music volume at 10 in the middle of the night? What about my right to smoke at the restaurant?
If I hurt other people rights, then I must give up.
And since welfare to me is an human right... I must give up amassing gold in the cellar!
 

Anoah

Member
Messages
201
Political dueling ground

Hmmm. Yes and no. Personally I don't mind if my neighbour has his volume up to 10 at night but I can understand why others would.

I don't think welfare is a right, I think it destroys economies and encourages people not to work. I am however a complete bleeding heart softie who cannot stand to see anyone go without. Hmmm.

Can we meet everyones needs without taking what doesn't belong to us and without allowing people to get away with sponging? This is my question.
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Political dueling ground

Good Point Anoah!

Everybody here remembers the phrase "No Taxation without Representation", Yes?
If not, prehaps a Boston bay full of tea, some 226 years ago may jog the memory?


Perhaps a more fair system for taxation would be gauranteed and fair representation. It is a sad fact that our original laws were made by the Land Owners ( the rich ) if I am not mistaken, and for the Land Owners. In present day, it seems the same injustice is taking place couched under the guise of our democratic system in operation when it comes to making laws. Harumph and Balderdash I say!! Also, "I am mad as Hell and not going to take it any more!!!!!" to coin a phrase. Laws are passed today with unknown and or unseen caveats attached to them which when researched fully could scare you to death and back if you knew what your representatives in the government were really doing.

If you vote yes it means no, if you vote yes it may mean no. Isn't that fun?

Gary, you are correct in the point about income tax being basicly against the law. It was only going to last as long as WWII and then it was supposed to stop.

Paul, check me on this, please. I believe the case is refered to as Flora VS United States 1898 where Floor won and created precedence regarding income tax? If you will notice, you statements from the government read : "this is an ESTIMATE" please bring your records...
more on that later.
 

HackimerRob

Member
Messages
391
Political dueling ground

When did this all turn around to .. oh, never mind - I'll just rush in, drop my beliefs on the floor and run away -
I'm going to take the american standpoint here and say that it should work like this with taxes - everyone should have an elective bill sort of thingie, where, there is garbage pickup, say, and water delivery through pipes and electricity (equally portioned) and all that stuff is run by the govt, and you get a bill. A bill that's itemized, like they had to fix your sidewalk, well, on this bill it would say "sidewalk maintenance" and the whole block gets a price of that divided up. You don't pay the bill, then your credit goes down the tubes and they can lock you up, or put you to work for them, or something like that.

I scurry on...sorry for the hit n run philos pholks, I'm in the middle of a hump day and humping away.
Someone cover Rug's ears please.
Thanks!
 

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