Something I noticed about JTs predictions

[August]

Something I noticed about JTs predictions

Chromium's despair leads me to a few thoughts,

First, I think the members of our community, given the current political landscape, should be very careful about what we post. Indymedia is minus one server today thanks to our federal investigators. Posting about revolution, dry powder or saving lives in the 3rd week of October 2004 seems to me a bit, well, unwise. Would Lenin have posted his thoughts if the internet had been around or would he have stayed out among the people where he was safe?

I find it fascinating how many new Titor followers have shown up in recent weeks. Now let me say I am no stranger to paranoia--but you must wonder how many of these new fellows are moles? I guess the strange thing is some agency would have to have at least one agent interacting with a handful of communities, right? That must be the coolest job.

And Chromium this election has made me more optimistic than ever before about our country's future. I know Bush and Kerry are both Corporcrats and for now we need to put up with that but remember a few things: The Day Nixon was booted not one soldier left one barracks to protect his job. Our country has voted incumbents out of office several times with no bloodshed. We were a better, stronger nation after the Civil War.

And let me tell you about three republicans who are voting for Kerry:

My Dad is a "Reagan Democrat" who voted for W and his father. My dad is also a decorated war hero who watched a standing president allow a veteran to be smeared publicly. He is voting for Kerry.

My Neighbor, a conservative fellow, knows that if Bush has another four years we won't see a Republican in the White House until mid-century. He is voting for Kerry.

A friend of a friend is a die hard Republican but happens to be an atheist--he didn't really mind the religious right hijacking his party until they put a born again in the White House. He is voting for Kerry.

I think democracy is sometimes turbulent--just hang on and enjoy the ride.

 

[Judge Bean]

Something I noticed about JTs predictions

If you collate all of the polls since the DNC, and average the results, Bush rides into the White House with 1 or 2% popular and 20-30 Electoral College votes. The writing is on the wall, the election is in the bag, the course is set, and the metaphors are all mixed.

If you read what people have written in these two forums over the past year, you will see that the overall opinion is that a violent social upheaval, such as a revolution or civil war, is not either longed for or encouraged. On the contrary, the general idea here seems to be that we should resist the illegal government acts nonviolently, protest, and disobey-- but, perhaps taking the cue from Titor himself, there has been no talk of getting guns and ammunition ready.

My own repeated beliefs involve passive resistance to what I consider an illegal government (no matter who is in power, at this point and since the 1960s); and I have tried to make it clear that there is an actual Constitutional way to overthrow the government peacefully. That last would take a lot of things that people are not usually willing to give: effort, thought, debate, and a vote by the conscience and reason.

I should think that a federal interest in us would quickly lose its purpose if the reason were to root out Che Guevaras. But that's not really the point, is it? The fear is that such an investigation might stand as proof of Titor's claims. That is, the government, as usual, knows more than we do, keeps it all a secret, and has truck with UFOs and the like. Titor, if an actual timetraveler, would have to be a government agent, or, what amounts to the same thing, a corporate soldier of some kind. I don't buy the postapocalyptic farmers-in-macrame scenario; that's just me. I've seen it in too many movies.

We need to stop being afraid of the truth. It won't hurt us, and keeping it from us hurts Them more. Let me explain what I mean.

Obviously many here would find themselves brothers in arms in a revolution against a corrupt, bought, oppressive government. That simple truth does not expose anyone to government investigation or prosecution without proving the underlying proposition that that government needs to be overthrown. Simply stating the fact becomes a revolutionary act-- of the type that Americans like, one that doesn't draw blood or threaten their credit ratings. It also leaves the question open as to whether this government, or the one coming in January, is corrupt, bought, and oppressive; and whether there is not another way to replace it besides at gunpoint.

Calling for the overthrow of the government is an act of the highest patriotism if that government has betrayed its democratic charter. To compel violence in order to overthrow it would be the final betrayal. We have the right to the nonviolent overthrow of these criminals, spooks, and fat cats. They don't have the right to retain power through succeeding administrations.

I have explained in another thread how the lawful revolt can occur; it is licensed by the Second Amendment, of all things, and would require both a Constitutional Amendment and a national referendum election. It may sound difficult and boring, and it is true that the field of glory has more material in it to write novels and make movies about later, but, just as my opinion doesn't constitute the truth, the law doesn't constitute art. Civil war and violent revolution means that the law has failed, has been vacated; war means that law and language have been abandoned.

But it will take, as I say, work and thought-- is anyone up to it?

 

[CaryP]

Something I noticed about JTs predictions

I'm with you Paul. What do we do?

Cary

 

[Fringan]

Something I noticed about JTs predictions

Originally posted by CaryP@Oct 19 2004, 09:09 PM
What do we do?

You guys are good at expressing your opinion. Make a list of all the news papers you can think of, publish the list with e-mail addresses to all of them in here and start writing letters to the editors. Lets say 20 of you guys wrote letters about how you feel and sent it in to 300 magazines atleast one of them 6000 letters should be published

You are the americans, you have to try and make a difference. Most things I read in here on the topic is really inspiring and I think all these opinions should also get to Average Joe.

Go go go!

 

[August]

Something I noticed about JTs predictions

I'm with you Paul. What do we do?

This is exactly the kind of rhetoric I am talking about. That being said I of course would line up after Paul and Cary.

Fringan,

Excellent post--this is my first year of political activity. I have written 2 letters and 10 emails to date. By your measure I need to pick up the pace. And I will. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[sosuemetoo]

Something I noticed about JTs predictions

Originally posted by Paul J. Lyon@Oct 19 2004, 11:05 AM
If you collate all of the polls since the DNC, and average the results, Bush rides into the White House with 1 or 2% popular and 20-30 Electoral College votes. The writing is on the wall, the election is in the bag, the course is set, and the metaphors are all mixed.

Paul - I listen to right wing media throughout the day. They have been going crazy over the polls the last few days. It does look like to me that Bush will win, but anything can happen in the next 13 days.

If you read what people have written in these two forums over the past year, you will see that the overall opinion is that a violent social upheaval, such as a revolution or civil war, is not either longed for or encouraged. On the contrary, the general idea here seems to be that we should resist the illegal government acts nonviolently, protest, and disobey-- but, perhaps taking the cue from Titor himself, there has been no talk of getting guns and ammunition ready.

I want to reiterate also that as a mod, personally I would not allow posts regarding a violent uprising against the government. There are ways to change the government legally and the Constitution is at our disposal.

 

[Judge Bean]

Something I noticed about JTs predictions

Originally posted by sosuemetoo+Oct 20 2004, 01:50 PM--><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Paul J. Lyon@Oct 19 2004, 11:05 AM
If you collate all of the polls since the DNC, and average the results, Bush rides into the White House with 1 or 2% popular and 20-30 Electoral College votes.? The writing is on the wall, the election is in the bag, the course is set, and the metaphors are all mixed.

Paul - I listen to right wing media throughout the day. They have been going crazy over the polls the last few days. It does look like to me that Bush will win, but anything can happen in the next 13 days.

If you read what people have written in these two forums over the past year, you will see that the overall opinion is that a violent social upheaval, such as a revolution or civil war, is not either longed for or encouraged.? On the contrary, the general idea here seems to be that we should resist the illegal government acts nonviolently, protest, and disobey-- but, perhaps taking the cue from Titor himself, there has been no talk of getting guns and ammunition ready.

I want to reiterate also that as a mod, personally I would not allow posts regarding a violent uprising against the government. There are ways to change the government legally and the Constitution is at our disposal.

​

[/b][/quote]

Thank you for your reiteration of that last part-- I have assumed as much, and have just posted elsewhere that exact thing.

 

[Darkwolf]

Something I noticed about JTs predictions

Ok, I never ment anyone to take anything I was saying to mean that I was Advocating civil war. I'm not, and I'd really rather not see one. However I am concerned that one might break out around me. Really its up to the government. If they handle the protest and dissent that will sorround a questionable election with wisdom and restraint, there will be no problem. If they begin treating peaceful protesters like terrorists, that may be another story. So we wait and see.

August brought up an interasting point.

Would Lenin have posted his thoughts if the internet had been around or would he have stayed out among the people where he was safe?

Lenin may not have used the net, however I'm pretty sure that Washington, Jefferson and company would have been all over it. They are far better models if you ask me. The net is an unprecidented way for a small group of people to get the word out to large numbers of people cheaply and effectively. A communications breakthrough like that has not happened since the invention of the printing press. We should use it no matter what ideas we are trying to spread.

Paul, you sound like you have some ideas, I'd like to hear them. I'll add one of my own here. Get as many others as you can to STOP voting for democrats and republicans, it may be a waste of a vote for a year, or two or a decade, but Cary was right. We have a one party system with two names. If enough people vote for the Libertarians, or the Constitution party, or the Green party though, it might at least make the career pols sit up and take notice that we are not happy.
Phil

 

[pauli]

Something I noticed about JTs predictions

The media that is generally viewed as pro-Bush announces that the polls favor him, but there is some desperation in the White House about now as they scramble to hold on to power. What will they do, how far will they go? How far can they go?

:huh: Paul, I cannot believe you believe that the media is "pro-Bush." You must be joking eh? If anything it is decidedly pro-Kerry. The media is NOT pro-Bush. Just look and see the spin. It moves toward the left. Hollywood, who promotes the Democratic agenda, goes out of their way to promote Kerry and bash Bush. Now if you say that talk-radio is pro-Bush, then I can agree with you wholeheartedly. But the major alphabet channels, ABC, NBC, CNN, etc. (with the possible exception of FOX) promote the Democratic party shamelessly.

As a case in point, even though Michael Moore's Farenheit 9-11 has been showing around the country for the past 3 to 4 months - a Bush basher if there ever was one - the movie "Stolen Honor: Wounds that Never Heal," which is a documentary based upon the experiences of Viet-nam Vets who were tortured and given longer sentences in Viet-cong prisons, is being supressed by the media and liberal groups. http://www.newsmax.com/adv/stolenhonor/?refid=24 . The Sinclair Broadcasting group is going to air the movie, but only after cutting out the "offending" parts - aka the truly damning footage that will show Kerry up for being a lying rat-Bd. Now, who is the one suppressing whom? Who is favoring whom?? Hmmm....

 

[Judge Bean]

Something I noticed about JTs predictions

Originally posted by pauli@Oct 21 2004, 08:15 AM

The media that is generally viewed as pro-Bush announces that the polls favor him, but there is some desperation in the White House about now as they scramble to hold on to power. What will they do, how far will they go? How far can they go?

:huh: Paul, I cannot believe you believe that the media is "pro-Bush." You must be joking eh? If anything it is decidedly pro-Kerry. The media is NOT pro-Bush. Just look and see the spin. It moves toward the left. Hollywood, who promotes the Democratic agenda, goes out of their way to promote Kerry and bash Bush. Now if you say that talk-radio is pro-Bush, then I can agree with you wholeheartedly. But the major alphabet channels, ABC, NBC, CNN, etc. (with the possible exception of FOX) promote the Democratic party shamelessly.

As a case in point, even though Michael Moore's Farenheit 9-11 has been showing around the country for the past 3 to 4 months - a Bush basher if there ever was one - the movie "Stolen Honor: Wounds that Never Heal," which is a documentary based upon the experiences of Viet-nam Vets who were tortured and given longer sentences in Viet-cong prisons, is being supressed by the media and liberal groups. http://www.newsmax.com/adv/stolenhonor/?refid=24 . The Sinclair Broadcasting group is going to air the movie, but only after cutting out the "offending" parts - aka the truly damning footage that will show Kerry up for being a lying rat-Bd. Now, who is the one suppressing whom? Who is favoring whom?? Hmmm....

​

I meant that part of the media that is generally recognized as pro-Bush. Most of the news, though, is apolitical-- not because of a considered or conscientious position, but because it is a huge, stupid mechanism that only responds to the flow of cash and the divorces of celebrities.

One exception is the Sinclair family, which operates a couple of dozen stations across the country and wants to air the anti-Kerry film. This is a far different thing than the Moore film, which was distributed in theaters according to industry agreements and public taste. TV is considered less a discretionary choice of the public, and the airwaves are regulated as much as, say, shipping and airlines. If you put a political viewpoint on TV, you are required to balance it with access to the opposing opinion-- a point lost on an outfit such as Fox.

The polls do favor Bush, but none of them by enough of a spread to make anyone in DC comfortable.