Debate Stephen Hawking makes it clear: There is no God

[ElementalDissonance]

A problem can be solved. Issues just go on and on and one till resolved.

Well, you could also say that problems go on and on and on until solved, right?

 

[titorite]

Problems can be solved externally by anyone issues must be resolved internally by the individual.

 

[Ayasano]

not everyone believes in the same thing as you. The Abrahamic god is only one of many that people believe in. Your assertion that your god is their god and that they have to believe in

Bad assumption and shame on you for telling me I believe in burning bushes and that the infinity told abraham to kill issac. I'm a little more complicated then that but you didn't care, you just presumed and sought to pick an argument. Issues.
Not problems, Issues.

Firstly, I will admit I made an assumption here as to the exact nature of your beliefs, and I apologize for that.

. Your assertion that your god is their god and that they have to believe in your god is just plain arrogant.

I did not say they have to believe that.

"Well , do you know that my god is your god is his god is all god?

God is God regardless."

Those are your exact words. You are asserting that any god or goddess anyone else believes in is in fact your god, and that they are incorrect in their beliefs. If you simply chose your words poorly and did not mean that, then say that, but don't deny that you said it in the first place.

And I think this is where I bow out of this discussion. When your debate partner starts to twist your own words and outright lie about and ignore what they themselves said, it's time to accept that they aren't open to discussion any more. And he has the gall to say the atheist is the problem.

You have not bowed out of the conversation , I have not out right lied , and if you feel I twisted your words then that is on you for speaking what you said not me for quoting your own words, and I said atheists have issues NOT ATHEIST IS THE PROBLEM. Be exact.

I came back into this discussion because you decided on your own that I must have "issues" and that I believe in something I have explicitly stated I do not. If you insult me, I'm not going to let that go unchallenged. Also, FYI, saying atheists have issues is tantamount to saying they're the problem. Don't nitpick.

To hate something, you have to believe it exists, which atheists by definition don't. You're basically saying that he has to actively hate every single god or goddess ever conceived in order to not believe in them, which is obviously a fallacy. Remember that your god is not the only possible god

I am not saying he believes in multiples gods or that he has to believe in such a thing you put those words out there. I did not say them. I am saying he despises God period. AND you don't know MY god. So for you to say to me that I should remember that my god is not the only possible god is extremely arrogant. A BIG ASSUMPTION. For I am thinking the only God. and you are thinking god god god god no god. But make no mistake I am not saying hawkings hates thor and krishnia and allah, I am just theorizing that the man has a hatred of God.

Firstly, you again assert that I must believe in something I in fact don't believe in: "Only the way you talk... It leads me to think you doubt your faith in godlessness. But not enough to admit to it."

Now, on to the main point, you said:

"I think Stephen Hawking is just so bitter about his circumstances in this life that he harbors a hatred of God..."

This implies that in order to assert that God doesn't exist, you must harbour a hatred of God, and by extension the opposite is not true, ie. "you can assert that God does not exist without hating him" is false.

By making the statement he did, Hawking implies that none of the other gods/goddesses exist either. So by your own logic, he must hate those gods/goddesses too, and by extension, believe in them.

So by your own logic, Hawking must believe in all possible gods/goddesses and hate them. See?

You don't even care to ask me what exactly I believe, you already have a retort ready for what you THINK I believe but you haven't even examined my beliefs.

What you believe doesn't concern me. You could believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and it wouldn't make a difference. What matters is the right for people to believe what they want to believe, and for those people to not be told "your beliefs are wrong and mine are right". It's fine to think that, but keep it to yourself. (And yes, I'm aware this applies to Hawking too)

(I'll admit that I've probably done that myself when particularly annoyed with people on this forum in the past, but I'm trying to avoid doing it going forward, as a sign of respect for people's beliefs. If I do it, feel free to yell at me and direct me back to this post)

 

[Ayasano]

Also, for the people wondering why this debate is still going it's because:
a) I'm British, and we enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing.
b) The mind is a muscle in a certain sense, and this is one of the ways I exercise it.
c) Sometimes people do actually present a point eloquently enough that I stop and re-examine my own beliefs.

 

[titorite]

What you believe doesn't concern me.

And like I said there is the whole problem. If you are not concerned about what I believe you can not examine what I believe. YOu can only make assumptions from a place of ignorance because you dont care.

 

[titorite]

Also, for the people wondering why this debate is still going it's because:
a) I'm British, and we enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing.

Have you ever considered the merits of conversation instead of debate?

 

[Ayasano]

Also, for the people wondering why this debate is still going it's because:
a) I'm British, and we enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing.

Have you ever considered the merits of conversation instead of debate?

There's a difference?

What you believe doesn't concern me.

And like I said there is the whole problem. If you are not concerned about what I believe you can not examine what I believe. YOu can only make assumptions from a place of ignorance because you dont care.

Okay, so, you think I'm being ignorant about something. Could you explain what exactly I'm being ignorant about, and how it pertains to this discussion/debate/conversation?

eg., Why is what you believe important to whether or not you should be free to believe in it? Because from my perspective, that's what the core of our discussion is about, and the rest mostly comes down to semantics and misunderstood intent on both sides. It may be that the core of your argument is something different.

 

[titorite]

Their is a difference. Debates are combative, conversations are ongoing and collaborative .

As to what you may be ignorant of? A believers belief. Every individual is unique in their own individual beliefs.

For example, I believe I am having a conversation. Do you think this is an argument?

 

[Ayasano]

Their is a difference. Debates are combative, conversations are ongoing and collaborative .

That was a British joke.

As to what you may be ignorant of? A believers belief. Every individual is unique in their own individual beliefs.

For example, I believe I am having a conversation. Do you think this is an argument?

I would see what we're doing now as somewhere in between. It mostly doesn't feel hostile enough to be an argument, but we both seem to be trying to convince the other person of something, so it's not really a conversation either. Debate seems to fit the most, in the sense of a level-headed discussion.

However, you didn't answer the most important questions:

a) What do you think this conversation is about?
b) How does the actual belief matter to whether or not the person should be allowed to hold that belief? (And just hold it, we're not counting actually acting on it here, as that answer is more obvious, eg. white supremacists, homophobic people, etc.)

 

[Harte]

If he doesn't believe in God With all honesty then he should not feel I have a God anymore than he does. Their for his use of the statement "YOUR GOD" is indicative of the notion that he just may believe a little bit in God or that I have a God that he doesn't have. It does not indicate the belief that nobody has any God because their is no God. Atheists have religious issues.

Because, apparently, you are unaware of the normal, everyday usage of the noun "god."
That is, it seems that you think the term can ONLY be applied to the god worshipped by the mythological Abraham.

I suppose you might get it if people used the word "thingie" in it's place? As in "The Hindus worship many thingies."

Harte