The Creation of Man

[Cubby]

Re: The Creation of Man

My my, human ideas of the universe are so cryptic. We should make more words and theories to define..._____...more wholly. Mind the subjective attachments people make to these simple definitions...
Perhaps we're just fools for drama and like to fulfill our own prophecies... despite whatever "time" we choose to act them, also, how we interpret the motions that make up the action.
If the bible was some big planned map and planted with us since the very beginning, it would have been far easier to add as an afternote "BTW, some people will not believe this and fight you on it to immense measures... All past messiahs are liars and not human."
Unless you add that these seeds were planted at multiple points in time. And also suggest a quite convoluted plan of moving from now into ahead as so easy as to suggest that an idea will make any two people consider exactly the same refinement or degradation of said idea into every lane of possibility...
Already I've worn thin the possibilities of this scenario in my mind, but show me some other way to interact with it and perhaps I'll find something there.

 

[Dmitri]

Re: The Creation of Man

There is little new in what I propose. Darwinism was shown unscientific by a good number of people. I forgot to add to the list of the two books I mentioned above Steele?s ?Lamarck?s signature?. Panspermia is an old idea, revitalized by Francis Crick, for example, see his 1981 "Life Itself". Commemorates are many, and many mention this idea of his, e.g. at http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20040729-701-040729crick.html One may safely call him the greatest biologist of the last century. He was the DNA structure discoverer, with Watson, outstanding brain researcher, and exceptional educator.

Among possible explanations of life, since we do not have a theory, only sketchy hypotheses, I would first consider a structural approach: there is something in the genomes that directs, apart from the cell?s fate, the evolution of the organism through all the diverse type forms of life from bacteria to a vertebrate. It does not look good so far.

Directed panspermia is a kind of alternative. Suggest others, as many as you can: the theoretical biology book is open to everybody now: it is like a notebook, a couple of notes written in pencil, the rest is blank pages. (There are lots of books and papers on the theory of evolution, but you can safely archive 99.9% of them. Anyone?s notebook will be more important 4 sure)

If you consider directed panspermia, viruses is just the simplest way, and look sufficient to direct evolution. You do not need more complicated scenarios with UFOs landing and delivering everything still hot.

 

[Dmitri]

Re: The Creation of Man

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Cubby\")</div>

Already I've worn thin the possibilities of this scenario in my mind, but show me some other way to interact with it and perhaps I'll find something there.[/b]

I'll think about interactions today/ tomorrow

 

[StarLord]

Re: The Creation of Man

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Dmitri\")</div>

There is little new in what I propose. Darwinism was shown unscientific by a good number of people. I forgot to add to the list of the two books I mentioned above Steele?s ?Lamarck?s signature?. Panspermia is an old idea, revitalized by Francis Crick, for example, see his 1981 \"Life Itself\". Commemorates are many, and many mention this idea of his, e.g. at http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20040729-701-040729crick.html One may safely call him the greatest biologist of the last century. He was the DNA structure discoverer, with Watson, outstanding brain researcher, and exceptional educator.

Among possible explanations of life, since we do not have a theory, only sketchy hypotheses, I would first consider a structural approach: there is something in the genomes that directs, apart from the cell?s fate, the evolution of the organism through all the diverse type forms of life from bacteria to a vertebrate. It does not look good so far.

Directed panspermia is a kind of alternative. Suggest others, as many as you can: the theoretical biology book is open to everybody now: it is like a notebook, a couple of notes written in pencil, the rest is blank pages. (There are lots of books and papers on the theory of evolution, but you can safely archive 99.9% of them. Anyone?s notebook will be more important 4 sure)

If you consider directed panspermia, viruses is just the simplest way, and look sufficient to direct evolution. You do not need more complicated scenarios with UFOs landing and delivering everything still hot. [/b]

Dmitri,

I still have to disagree on HIV type infections not being cooked up in some military lab here in the states. Sure 'nobody' is susposed to be doing that any more *cough, cough* because it's all about being outlawed *cough, cough* which means without a doubt that no side has done any inventing of new viral weapons in the last 40 years right???? NOT. Why do you think there was such a mad scramble for the Japanese notes regarding research by both the russians and the americans? Specifically the research they did in and around manchuria and china during wwII. Look at WHERE the major out breaks took place at virtually the very same time New York and San Franciso among the Gay community. In both places the Gays were becoming a political force unto themselves to be taken suriously due to very politically involved % wise with vast amounts of motivation. See the direction this line is taking?

Just because there was not as much sophistication in manufacturing and gene manipulation like today, they still had clues as to technique and basic directions that could be taken to advance early viruses.

Military projects can be in the works for decades before the common people see any sort of visible 'advances' be it medical or electronic.

I cannot see the possibility of 'early' HIV incubating some 20 to 30 years and all of a sudden it just 'happens' to break out on two different sides of the states at the same time and in the same 'type' of community?? That's reaching far to much for mere concidence imho.
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This planet was 'seeded' DNA wise hundreds of thousands years ago via direct ET intervention under the specific direction of 'higher' powers. Especially in the arena of cranial capacity for homo erectus which led to the homo sapien's development of the same. Specifically for the advancement and development of a higher consciousness for our species.
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I have also come to the opinion that direct inspection and observations of changes brought on by specific sounds and or vibrations in regards to our DNA is a worthwile investment of consideration. Many thousands of years ago when the Indian Vedic system of medicine was in practice, the 'Doctors' of the time were able to heal, cause healthful changes, eradicate unhealthy environments within individual organs, by chanting in a specific 'meter' using specific 'tones'.

If I am not mistaken, the basis or foundation of this type of medicine is founded on the knowledge that every single 'thing' in this Universe has it's very own 'original name' or sound if you will. Once known, the ability to manipulate that item is avaliable. It can be manifested, obliterated, made stronger, weaker, larger or smaller.

I would be very interested to see what types of changes are manifested by intentionaly directing specific sounds and their accompanying vibrational content are observed upon DNA. Visually, DNA reminds me so much of a twisted, very long version of a stringed instrument. A starting point would of course be the sound AUM and HU (pronunced hugh). Both, very ancient chants.

 

[Dmitri]

Re: The Creation of Man

Why military? Their budget is not much more than about ten pharmaceutical companies combined. I am not saying it is not waste of money. What their research is? Somewhere it is more advanced, like in space weapons engineering, but not in the biotech, throw them ten billions or more. Their work habits are on the slow side. Some dumb former grad students of ours went to work for them - they will not advance 20-30 years ahead of the rest, not in their lifetime. They may have had a lot of hints, but the hardware technique was not there. It?s like I have a hammer in my garage and some wrenches, and I will make a Lexus.

Considering sounds. They have to be wonderfully important. I love Tibetan mantras and think they do a lot. Music overall does a lot too, but not so wisely. I do not know how sound may affect DNA, cannot think of any research done here. To speculate, DNA sequence may stay the same, but there is a lot in the organism that may change and get the momentum. I like to think good sounds help us along better trajectories in our existences, comparable to Buddhist attention to the breath, at least for a minute a day.

 

[StarLord]

Re: The Creation of Man

Why military you ask?? Are you serious??? If I was able to 'cook' up a virus that incompacitated a whole Army in 72 hrs Without a single shot being fired you seriously think ANY country would not pay Billions for that???

Have you forgotten the 'games' that both russia and the us played during the 50's and 60's with sending a 'Flu' into each respective country wether delivered by airborne or via a tourist that was inoculated and the person became 'infectious' when they arrived and both parties/countries would sit back and see how far that 'flu' spread across the respective countries? That's pretty much common knowledge in some circles here.

 

[Dmitri]

Re: The Creation of Man

I hate military too; and russia is sure no better than others; that?s partly why I chose the us to work in, a bit better progress is likely to go on here. Their military are sure both evil, and if we pin one wrong on them, I guess it will not change the equation significantly. I should think about the ID and concepts of life though, because Monday will not be as good and will be too late and too little for the week. And the previous question of interaction is big, would you agree?

 

[Dmitri]

Re: The Creation of Man

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Cubby\")</div>

Perhaps we're just fools for drama and like to fulfill our own prophecies... despite whatever \"time\" we choose to act them, also, how we interpret the motions that make up the action.

Already I've worn thin the possibilities of this scenario in my mind, but show me some other way to interact with it and perhaps I'll find something there.[/b]

How do we interact with knowledge that we do not have immediate use of, especially while it is not yet established and may never come to be? Good question. We can sure modify our worlds as we like (and deserve) them. Now what does knowledge have to do with the process? I guess it facilitates it. Putting pieces of the puzzle together helps to advance faster knowing the ways. We got intelligence; finally it started to work after thousands of years of a semi-dormant state, and after more than a hundred years of the complete nightmare in biology. I guess it is natural to advance and learn more of what things are, since we look equipped to do this. Practical interaction would be making better drugs and replacing cancer chemo we have now. Then it would be improving genomes and growing plants and other things in better ways. More general interaction is about what one feels up to, is it not? I just like to think we have the ability to research the world so why not use it. If this is the air that we breath, then if something is true, it will not wear thin like cloths, it will stay part of our world, esp. if you help make it better this way. We do not need other evidence than comparing genomes, wait two-three years. Many biologists say we will never find answers because we do not live a million years to set up evolutionary experiments. I should say to them, wait a couple of years now. The genomes will be compared more and will start to make a lot of new sense.

 

[Grayson]

Re: The Creation of Man

Just a brief interjection here as I don't want to spoil the flow of debate.

HIV/AIDS: Our capacity to produce a virus with such a selective vector path offers us nothing in the way of useful Military applications. HIV is too limited in its deployment and takes too long to achieve a state of incapacitation, or death.

Technologically, in the late 40's when we would have had to be developing this, our technology was too limited and our understanding of the human body too primitive. We had not long discovered and started to use large-scale anti-biotics.

The laws of thermodynamics are the descriptors of the universe and do not permit perpetual motion machines. We would only waste our time and money if we were to attempt building a machine that not only can run forever, but that could even produce excess energy while doing so.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics is closely interwoven with the future of the universe and with all life on earth. Sometimes people say that the existence of life on earth violates or contradicts the Second Law. However, this is not the case; we know of nothing in the universe that violates the Second Law.

The definition of life revolves around three prerequisites: The organism must be able to replicate itself, the organism must be capable of energy conversion and the organism must be subject to evolution. The essence of evolution is an increase in complexity, as is obvious when we consider the evolution of living organisms over eons of time. An increase in complexity entails an increase in the orderliness of the organizational character of the organism: Life represents a decrease of entropy, a decrease of randomness. Such a decrease in randomization can only come about as a result of an infusion of energy from the outside of the closed system, from the outside of the organism. Therefore, the ability to utilize energy by converting it to a usable form, is the essence of all things that we call alive or living. In the case of life on earth, the outside energy is derived from the sun. No sunlight, no life on earth.

Many people have trouble understanding the principle of entropy because it is a concept of negatives, because it is a measure of the disorder, of the randomness of a closed system. Every biochemical function requires a decrease in entropy, which can only be achieved by the infusion of energy into a life-sustaining system.

But entropy will have its way with us. We sanitise and sterilise the world around us, the spaces that we occupy to multiply and in doing so we create environs free from disease and predators. Nature abhors a vaccuum and the vaccuum that we create as we bend the world to our will is a simple one and one that we are proud of; we have no predators and are at the top of the food chain now.

Over a period of roughly 325,000 years, we have spat, clawed, bludgeoned, stabbed, shot, bombed and nuked our way to global supremacy. "I am man and mighty are my conquests", we roar.
Everything living must predate and be predated upon and in our macro-world the monsters are gone, banished by our technological superiority... but, the micro-world is natures last chance to balance the equation in which all things must predate and be predated upon. So, as we sanitise our world to fit our sterile needs, nature seeks evolutionary bacterium and virii to predate upon us and cull the rapidly expanding herd that is rushing like an organic tsunami across the planet devouring all in its path.

We pour energy into medicines and medical procedures to sustain life, to repair terminal damage, systemic failures and aberrant functions. entropy sees this as a simple process, the more energy that we pour into keeping us alive for longer, the more energy we continuously need to pour into this facet of our existence as we undo more than we cure. Natural selection no longer applies to man, what nature puts asunder, we will repair and cure and the natural issues that man faces are steadily becoming more cellular. The big diseases we can deal with, the things that are now killing man are getting closer and closer to unravelling the very fabric of our construction. It will not be long until we have a DNA, or MRNA virus stalking man and then we are up sh1tcreek without a paddle.

Nature abhors a vaccuum, entropy is Death and the Reaper always gets his man.

 

[BubbuClinton]

Re: The Creation of Man

Virtualgirl said

Let's say that a timetraveller went back in time to the dawn of man, planted the DNA from which man evolved and left the bible with the hidden text of our future and creation. Man evolved coming full circle back to the timetraveller. Therefore, the timetraveller would be his own creater.

The thing is, the Bible was/is a complitation of writing spanning thousands of years. Your time traveler would have to come litteraly hundreds of times and speak a myriad of languages, some of which are dead today and theoretically would be dead in the future. Further, the time traveler would have to have been at the council of Nice in 340 A.D and pursuaded the Catholic/Roman Emplorer to include his books in the Bible. Remember, there were many books not added to the bible that were considered doctrine to many christian sects.

Now, if you are speaking strictly about using only the Tora, you might have a case if it was based on the ancient texts. However, the Tora itsself is a complitation of oral traditions attributed to Moses. However, there are not any original documents attributed directly to Moses. So your time traveler would have to influenced all of the Rabbi's that kept the oral tradition alive and hope that the code was not changed from the original design.

If the Bible code works at all it would definately have to be devinely inspired.

Bubbu
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When they start requiring you carrry identiffication, it is time to leave the planet -- L. Long