The truth about Jesus and Gay people

[Samstwitch]

The truth about Jesus and Gay people...Most Christians condemn and persecute gay people, but this is NOT what our Lord Jesus Christ taught!

Christians give Jesus a bad rap by persecuting gays. In turn, gays are turned-off to hearing about Jesus, because they have been persecuted! Oh you brood of viper Christians for putting stumbling blocks before these children of God!

JESUS TAUGHT US 2 MAJOR POINTS...

1) LOVE ONE ANOTHER

Jesus gave us the 11th and most important Commandment (next to loving God):

John 13:34-35: "A new command I give you: Love one another, as I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

2) JUDGE NOT, LEST YE BE JUDGED

Matthew 7:1-2: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Luke 6:37: “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven."

Jesus never condemned anyone! He rebuked the Pharisees for being hypocrites, but he never condemned anyone, including gays.



A COMPARISION: MEDIUMS AND GAYS

Some people liken gay people to sinners, murderers, sexually immoral people, etc., but these are NOT accurate comparisons.

Think of the movie, "The Sixth Sense". The little boy, Cole Sear, was a gifted Medium. A Medium is someone who can see and communicate with the spirits of dead people. Mediums are born that way, with the gift of Mediumship.

James Van Praagh is a Medium and he was raised Catholic. In fact, many gifted Mediums were raised Catholic. Lisa Williams is a Medium. They are very kind and loving people with the gift of communicating with departed Spirits.

BUT...

In the Old Testament, it was the Law that Mediums were to be stoned to death! They were considered an abomination. But people do not adhere to that belief today, because Jesus changed all that!

I liken gay people to Mediums. Both are born different, both are very sensitive.

NATIVE AMERICANS

Native Americans considered gay people to be special and gifted, because they had traits of both male and female. Many of them became Shamans.

MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES

I have given this matter a lot of thought for many years. One of my sons is gay. He claims he was born that way...and I can tell you, I believe this to be true, because he had traits since the beginning when he was a very small child. (He has also been called an 'Indigo Child' by many people.)

My gay son, and other gay people that I know (and I know many) are the most kind, loving, caring, helpful, and generous people that I have ever met! This is a trait of God's children. God's word says that those who LOVE are God's children.

THE OLD TESTAMENT & TEN COMMANDMENTS

In the Old Testament, the Law forbid God's children to eat pork and many other things that God's people eat today. In the Old Testament, the Law said a rebellious teenager was to be taken outside the gates of the city and stoned to death.

Today there are many things taught in the Old Testament that are not practiced by God's people today. We should live by the Ten Commandments, but even the Ten Commandments do not condemn gay people.

The Old Testament is the LAW, but when Jesus came, He fulfilled the Law and today we do not adhere to those teachings. We are saved by God's grace. Pastor Joseph Prince teaches on this.

THE NEW TESTAMENT

I know, I know...there are 2 places in the New Testament where St. Paul mentions homosexuals and condemns them. Now the true English translation of the word that is used in Greek or Hebrew has been argued. But here's what I say...

St. Paul also taught in the New Testament that women should not preach. However, today we do not adhere to that teaching. Joyce Meyers is a perfect example of a great woman preacher!

St. Paul did not WALK with Jesus during the 3 years that he traveled throughout Israel, teaching, preaching, and healing. Paul (Saul) persecuted the Christians and was converted when Jesus appeared to him (after the Resurrection) on the Road to Damascus.

My point is that in the GOSPELS written by the Apostles who WALKED with Jesus, NONE of them ever condemned gay people. And there is also the argument about the accurate translation of the word 'homosexual' in the English translation, so I DO NOT believe gay people are going to hell for being born gay!

Imagine if heterosexuals were told it was unnatural to sleep with the opposite sex, and they were going to hell for doing so. This is how gay people feel when they are persecuted!

Jesus LOVES gay people too! Share the Gospel with them without persecution or judgement!





*I'm moving out-of-state soon, and my Bible is packed, so I'm sorry that I cannot reference all of the Scriptures that I talk about here, but they are in the Bible.

 

[Peregrini]

Uh oh... now you've done it Samstwitch. The Wesboro Baptist Church will protest your move to Texas. They will set up along the highway with protest signs.
As for me, I agree with you 100%. It is most certainly not my place to judge anyone. Whether it's right or wrong, God will judge and he judges the heart.

 

[Samstwitch]

Uh oh... now you've done it Samstwitch. The Wesboro Baptist Church will protest your move to Texas. They will set up along the highway with protest signs.

Hi Peregrini, Somebody's gotta tell them what they're preaching is wrong. o_0 I'm ready!

 

[kcwildman]

ok huston we have a problem....Sam I do not presume to be a judge of man kind, but there are a couple scriptures you might want to look at.
Romans 1...26-32
1 Corinthians 6..9+10
2 Timothy 3...1-7
as this topic has been a real problem for me for quite some time now.
while they are not printed in red letters as bieng the very words of JESUS. they are quite clear about who will and who will not be accepted into the kingdome of GOD.
It is not my job to do anything other than to point out that JESUS came to save us from ourselves and our own lack of self control.
while the spirit may well be willing the flesh is truly very weak in meeting the standers of GODLY righteousness

 

[kcwildman]

ok sorry to go back to back here but this must be included in the mix...here's where the problem come's to light in the book of
Matthew 19......11+12
he speaks of the relationships of men and woman and
11.. how not all men can recieve this saying but those to who it is given...
12.. for there are some eunuchs which were so born from there mothers womb, and there are some which were by men, and some who made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom heaven's sake...
now herein lies the problem strongs concordance refrance 2135 in the greek says ( a castrated person, by implacation impotent or unmarried man,such being imployed in Oriental bed-chambers)
this would tend to point that an impotent man was one not intrested in woman and there for safe as an officer to oversee the concubines or harem
so in closing I must agree that we are not able to say for sure one way or the other and therefor must leave all judgment to GOD

 

[Samstwitch]

ok huston we have a problem....Sam I do not presume to be a judge of man kind, but there are a couple scriptures you might want to look at.
Romans 1...26-32
1 Corinthians 6..9+10
as this topic has been a real problem for me for quite some time now.
while they are not printed in red letters as bieng the very words of JESUS. they are quite clear about who will and who will not be accepted into the kingdome of GOD.
It is not my job to do anything other than to point out that JESUS came to save us from ourselves and our own lack of self control.
while the spirit may well be willing the flesh is truly very weak in meeting the standers of GODLY righteousness

Hi KC, thanks for your feedback. To go over a few things that you said...

You pointed out Romans 1:26-32 and 1Corinthians 6:9-10...Please note, I said in my opening comment, "there are 2 places in the New Testament where St. Paul mentions homosexuals and condemns them..." and those are the two scriptures. However, those statements were made by St. Paul, NOT by any of the original Apostles who walked and lived with Jesus during the 3 years that He performed miracles and taught in Israel.

You are right that there is nothing in Red Letters (Jesus's own words) that condemns homosexuals. If you read the book, The Boy who met Jesus: Segatashya of Kibeho...during the 1980's Jesus appeared many times to a Ruwandan boy and gave him messages for the world. In those messages, Jesus said to tell people to READ HIS WORDS in the Bible.

St. Paul also taught that women should not preach...but many women today are indeed good preachers.
St. Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 14:34..."The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says."
St. Paul was teaching the Old Testament LAW. However, Jesus fulfilled the Law! Everything changed after Jesus lived, died, and was Resurrected.

Remember, Jesus was crucified, because many of His teachings were opposed to the LAW that was taught by the Jewish leaders, the Sanhedrin, the Laws of the Old Testament!

In 2 Timothy 3: 1-7, St. Paul is talking about "eunuchs" who are celibate. But some have argued that it could relate to the case with people who are gay. St. Paul also wrote the Second Epistle to Timothy.

All of those Scriptures you posted were written by St. Paul, who did not get to walk with Jesus while he was on earth. Those teachings by St. Paul were taken from the Laws in the Old Testament.

The Old Testament Laws fell under the Grace of Jesus Christ when He came into the world and Redeemed us of all sin. That is why Jesus said, He fulfilled the Law of the Old Testament.

That is why I believe Gay people, Mediums, and others who are born different are not condemned to hell for being different. But we must accept Jesus as our personal Saviour to be Redeemed and go to Heaven. I pray that everyone receives the free gift of eternal life and happiness from Jesus!

 

[Dominick Romeo]

Very well said!

 

[Octavusprime]

Let's just remember that the book is a compilation of ancient texts written by men. Then rewritten by men. Many of the original translations are much different than a book you find in motel 6. Also many scriptures never made it to the book we see today.

It is very hard to accurately interpret what was originally written when it has been changedAND is missing large volumes of texts.

If you believe in the essence of Jesus' teachings one must accept that god accepts all that lead a good and honest life of love and compassion.

The golden rule tells you everything you need to know. God created man in his likeness even those BORN gay.

 

[Justinian]

My two cents... Like it or leave it. I want to add on to what Octavusprime and Samstwitch are saying.. Yes the Bible is supposed to be the word of God written down for us by MAN. But.. don't forget that this version of the Bible that is taught today is called in some circles "Paulinian Christianity". I've read some really good books/texts on this subject. But I'll give the short version for those that don't know. Peter and James were walking around the desert preaching the word of Jesus since they were there with him. Paul was walking around preaching his version of things that he got second hand and was teaching everyone not to believe Peter and James. So just keep that in mind. Then the Canon happened and words were messed with and books of the Bible shuffled around and taken out/ put in. So just remember that this is Paulinian Bible not the Jesus Bible.

 

[Samstwitch]

This is similar to what happened to me and one of my sons when I found out he was gay, except that I wasn't participating in any movements against gays. I was conditioned by Christian Pastors to believe being gay was a sin. God and the words of Jesus showed me otherwise. I'm glad to hear that other followers of Jesus are realizing, Jesus loves Gay people and not to condemn them for being different! My large circle of Gay friends are the most loving people I have ever met.

Mormon Mom Who Fought for Prop 8, Now Fights for Gay Son

Wendy and Tom Montgomery are devout Mormons from California who pounded on doors in 2008 to support the passage of Proposition 8, the state referendum that overturned the ruling that allowed same-sex couples to marry in California, and is now before the U.S. Supreme Court.

They did so not knowing that their now 14-year-old son, Jordan, was gay and would later contemplate suicide because of the church's steadfast belief that homosexuality is a sin that would cut him off from his family not only here on earth but in the afterlife.

"One of core tenets we believe in as Mormons is that the family is eternal in nature," Wendy Montgomery, 37, told ABCNews.com. "Our family units are really strong."

Raised in a conservative community in California, the mother of six children said she often heard things like "gay people are disgusting and immoral" and "AIDS is God's punishment for homosexuality."

"To be honest, before my son came out, I didn't know any other families who had gay kids," she said. "It's one of the things that's not talked about in my church, which makes it so much harder to deal with and know who to go to for help."

The Montgomery family's struggle to reconcile its faith with full acceptance of their son's sexual identity is at the heart of the video "Families Are Forever," which premieres at Frameline 37: the San Francisco International LGBT Film Festival this weekend.

The 20-minute piece is produced by the Family Acceptance Project at San Francisco State University, and is part of a planned series of short documentaries that depict the journey of ethnically and religiously diverse families to support their lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender children.

LGBT youth are more likely to engage in at-risk behaviors, according to the Project, which provides discussion guides and materials for parents, educators and communities. These resources have been recognized as a "best practice" by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.

"We have identified 100 ways parents and caregivers can respond and show how that affects their risk for suicide or substance abuse or HIV, self-esteem and sense of the future," said Caitlin Ryan, director of the Project, which has been studying LGBT youth and their families for 12 years.

"What we found across religious groups in conflict with homosexuality is many parents feel like they have to choose between their child and their faith," she said. "We've seen a lot of LGBT kids out of their homes and on the streets. Research shows high levels of negative reactions to homosexuality and risk for suicidal behavior and a sense of hopelessness. Jordan's greatest fear is that he felt he would be thrown out."

Ryan said that LGBT-specific suicide rates are difficult to find but could be as high as 4 percent and perhaps even higher among Mormons. A 2008 study in the journal Pediatrics suggests that acceptance, and even neutrality, about a child's sexual orientation rather than rejection, can reduce those rates.

In the short video, Jordan, a dark-haired boy with guileless eyes, explains that before his parents found out he was gay, he had considered taking "lots pills. ..."

"I was mortified at the idea of being disowned by my parents," Jordan says in "Families Are Forever." "I was like, I do not want to be thrown out of my home. I definitely expected to be excommunicated and restricted from church. But I still wanted to be with the church, like, I'd grown up with it, it was my life … until now."

Until about age 13, Jordan had been the "happiest, most exuberant child," according to his mother, but then he began to withdraw from friends and family. Looking for answers, she found an entry in his journal describing his attraction to other boys, though he had never acted on those urges.

The discovery shook his mother to the core.

"I felt like what I saw his life would be – what I expected his life to be – as a Mormon boy was now gone," she says in the video. "I saw him preparing for a mission for our church – gone. I saw a temple wedding – gone. I saw him being a father – gone."

Suddenly their son's conflict and depression made sense to the Montgomerys. But the church's view on homosexuality confused her: "God views it as a sin," she says in "Families Are Forever." "But I looked at a boy who had never done anything wrong, a pure innocent child, no way sinning or choosing this."

After leaving the family for several days, Montgomery said she and her husband, after saying a prayer, sat closely on their bed, and asked Jordan directly "Are you struggling?"

"I could feel him start to tremble and he nodded," says Montgomery. "We sat that way for two hours, and I hugged him and said, 'Jordan, this changes nothing. … You are perfect in our eyes. ... We will figure this out.'"

With what for her was shocking news about her son, Montgomery said she became a "master researcher."

"There were times when I wasn't eating or sleeping," she said. "I needed to find answers to help him."

She first bought books from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She was told that her son's homosexuality was a "choice," a "popular thing to do," and a "phase" he would outgrow. "None of that applied to my son," she said.

Finding nothing that would help her, she turned to the medical community and learned that homosexuality was not a choice but an identity. Eventually, she came across research from the Family Acceptance Project and learned she didn't have to choose between her faith and her son.

"It felt like a ray of sunshine in the middle of the darkest period of my life," said Montgomery. "It gave me hope."

Her husband agreed: "You can't just leave some void for a young child to [think], 'God doesn't have a plan for me anymore,'" Tom Montgomery, 41, says in the documentary. "I need to fill him with purpose. And give him, show him, this is not the end of the world, this is the beginning of your world."

Mitch Mayne, an openly gay active member of the Church of Latter-day Saints who currently holds a priesthood leadership position in his congregation in San Francisco, helped develop the Project's intervention kit – films and research materials – for Mormons like the Montgomerys, who were struggling.

"What we are seeing is very much a cultural change within the Mormon faith," said Mayne, who is in his 40s. "Sadly, Prop 8 branded Mormons as a hateful religion for the LGBT community. … We deserve a black eye for that, because it is one of the most un-Christ like things we have done as a religion. But the beautiful thing in the last few years is that we have seen tremendous change of heart."

But until now, Mayne said, there were few resource materials available to Mormons to educate themselves about homosexuality. Mayne said the Book of Mormon makes no mention of homosexuality.

Wendy Montgomery, too, went back to Scripture and said she felt good about her decision to accept Jordan for who he was: "Christ's most basic commandments were 'love god' and' love your neighbor,'" she said.

Today, Jordan is in the Boy Scouts working toward his Eagle Scout badge. The church has accepted a Boy Scout policy to allow openly gay youth. Because Jordan is not sexually active, he holds an Aaronic priesthood in the church, which means he can pass the sacrament in a ceremony akin to a Catholic communion.

He still faces some "rocky" times at his conservative public school, according to his mother. "I am on a first-name basis with the dean and am constantly fighting for him.

"For him, it's a double-edged sword – being open and at the same time he doesn't have the shame and self-hatred that comes with closeted," said his mother. "But he says, 'Mom, I can trust my friendships now. They know who I really am.'"

Others in Wendy Montgomery's close-knit community have reached out to say they are glad she is telling her story. Some gay teenagers who couldn't talk to their own parents have contacted Jordan and his family privately.

Montgomery said she has hope for Jordan's future, and the family is stronger because of its journey.

"I am a better person for having a gay son," she said. "I love differently, and I love more openly. I didn't realize the judgment I had before I realized that having a gay son was a great blessing and not a burden."

RELATED STORIES:
Christian gay cure group shuts down.
Churches sever ties to Boy Scouts over lifting gay ban.
Report says homophobia getting better in schools.