Three Laws of Chronodynamics
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Chronodynamic Jim
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Re: Three Laws of Chronodynamics
No other ship. If it didn't happen, it won't happen.
No other ship. If it didn't happen, it won't happen.
Re: Three Laws of Chronodynamics
Ouch. I know, Chrono. Just sayin'. Anyway, let's say we can travel freely in our own timeline and you navigate your way back to 1989 and inform yourself about time travel amongst other personal things. How would your memory and life be affected should the fifteen heed your warnings or hints? You were the fifteen year old at one point, so would you have a memory of being fifteen and meeting... you?
Ouch. I know, Chrono. Just sayin'. Anyway, let's say we can travel freely in our own timeline and you navigate your way back to 1989 and inform yourself about time travel amongst other personal things. How would your memory and life be affected should the fifteen heed your warnings or hints? You were the fifteen year old at one point, so would you have a memory of being fifteen and meeting... you?
Re: Three Laws of Chronodynamics
I really want to know your response to my queries and if they fall into the perimeters of your laws, so here's another one:
I know you say cause MUST not precede effect, but a 55-year-old traveler, Andy, goes forward to Mon. March 16, 2009 and discovers he is deceased. He only told his 22 year old assistant, Mike, about the machine. He learns Mike was reported missing on Mon. March 28, 2005 and was never found. Doing research he finds out the circumstances and travels back to Sat. Mar. 26, 2005 at 1:35 AM and witnesses his own murder. (CIA agents shoot him to death. They came for the top-secret machine he helped construct.)
He returns to Wed. Mar. 16, 2005 and now has conscious knowledge that he will die in ten days. He assumes the CIA disposed of Mike. Since he saw his murder happen he is shaken with fear. He saw the documents in '09 and feels he can't stop his murder or can he? Can he muster the courage to change his fate? Not in the next ten days, but in the past? (The next paragraphs are obvious nods to BTTF 1, but who cares. It's only for this forum. I know It's silly, but stomach it anyway.)
He explains to Mike the complexity of the mission and he is sent back thirty years to October 11, 1975.
The CIA funded to building of the machine and Mike has to warn the 25-year old Andy, but he can't have him turn down the CIA or he'll never build the machine with CIA-funded money and equipment to be able to steal it years later. But Mike can't have him accept the CIA's offer or he'll be killed in thirty years when he does steal it.
Mike decides to take matters into his own hands tell Andy about ways he can fund the building of the machine himself and accept the CIA's offer to learn about their new technology and equipment. Mike tells him about the how Seattle Slew wins the Triple Crown in 1977 and to bet on that horse in two years. While he?s working for the CIA, he should steal some of the equipment to build his own machine while still build theirs. Since the construction of the machine is given a 28 year window, Mike knows a crucial piece of the machine will be discovered in 1991. He tells Andy to fake his death shortly thereafter so he can devote the countless hours needed to finish building his own machine.
Confident he has saved Andy's life, Mike returns to the future.
He decided to return to Wed. March 16, 2005 a few moments before he departed and from a distance of twenty meters, watches himself step into the machine. In a moment of white light, it dematerializes into nothingness; there and not there in the same instant. Mike rushes toward and embraces Andy. ?Mission accomplished,? he said. ?We did it.?
Or did they? Does it interfere with the LAWS??
*Dramatic violin solo*
I really want to know your response to my queries and if they fall into the perimeters of your laws, so here's another one:
I know you say cause MUST not precede effect, but a 55-year-old traveler, Andy, goes forward to Mon. March 16, 2009 and discovers he is deceased. He only told his 22 year old assistant, Mike, about the machine. He learns Mike was reported missing on Mon. March 28, 2005 and was never found. Doing research he finds out the circumstances and travels back to Sat. Mar. 26, 2005 at 1:35 AM and witnesses his own murder. (CIA agents shoot him to death. They came for the top-secret machine he helped construct.)
He returns to Wed. Mar. 16, 2005 and now has conscious knowledge that he will die in ten days. He assumes the CIA disposed of Mike. Since he saw his murder happen he is shaken with fear. He saw the documents in '09 and feels he can't stop his murder or can he? Can he muster the courage to change his fate? Not in the next ten days, but in the past? (The next paragraphs are obvious nods to BTTF 1, but who cares. It's only for this forum. I know It's silly, but stomach it anyway.)
He explains to Mike the complexity of the mission and he is sent back thirty years to October 11, 1975.
The CIA funded to building of the machine and Mike has to warn the 25-year old Andy, but he can't have him turn down the CIA or he'll never build the machine with CIA-funded money and equipment to be able to steal it years later. But Mike can't have him accept the CIA's offer or he'll be killed in thirty years when he does steal it.
Mike decides to take matters into his own hands tell Andy about ways he can fund the building of the machine himself and accept the CIA's offer to learn about their new technology and equipment. Mike tells him about the how Seattle Slew wins the Triple Crown in 1977 and to bet on that horse in two years. While he?s working for the CIA, he should steal some of the equipment to build his own machine while still build theirs. Since the construction of the machine is given a 28 year window, Mike knows a crucial piece of the machine will be discovered in 1991. He tells Andy to fake his death shortly thereafter so he can devote the countless hours needed to finish building his own machine.
Confident he has saved Andy's life, Mike returns to the future.
He decided to return to Wed. March 16, 2005 a few moments before he departed and from a distance of twenty meters, watches himself step into the machine. In a moment of white light, it dematerializes into nothingness; there and not there in the same instant. Mike rushes toward and embraces Andy. ?Mission accomplished,? he said. ?We did it.?
Or did they? Does it interfere with the LAWS??
*Dramatic violin solo*
Chronodynamic Jim
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Re: Three Laws of Chronodynamics
just read your post, and am preparing a responce. Just so you know one is forthcoming. Thanks for your interest, BTW.
just read your post, and am preparing a responce. Just so you know one is forthcoming. Thanks for your interest, BTW.
Chronodynamic Jim
Junior Member
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Re: Three Laws of Chronodynamics
Warning, this is a long post.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"JRSpencer\")</div>
Yes.
Now on to your story.
I read your story and I'm afraid I failed to see the relevance to Third Law, but I'll subject it to the Laws anyway. Without all the plot and kibble, your story boils down to the following logical scenario: Alex attempts to prevent his death by sending Mike 30 years into the future in an attempt to warn himself. Putting aside the motivations and possible failings of this attempt, the Laws of Chronodynamics allow Alex to survive his death in only one way. To understand how, lets look at this story from a Chronodynamic viewpoint.
Note: stationary observer here refers to a non-time-traveling observer.
Lets look at the pertinant events of Alex's life in chronological order, that is the order in which they occur from the point of view of a stationary observer.
Alex is born. He grows up. He becomes a scientist. He becomes involved with the CIA in a project. A man named Mike approaches him and warns him of his death 30 years hence and gives him information with which to make money to build his own machine. Mike leaves. Alex evidently ignores Mikes advise since the story seems to indicate that he did not build his own machine with his ill gotten loot. 30 years pass during which Alex works on his machine or the CIA and hires a young assistant by the name of Mike. Alex travels to 2009 and learns of his death in 2005. Understandably upset Alex travels to 2005 to witness his death, whereupon he sees himself get shot. He then goes back to his original starting point, March 16, 2005. He tells Mike about what happened and sends him to 1975 to warn himself. Mike returns seconds before he leaves and declares "Mission Accomplished!" Or is it? Alex recognises Mike as the same Mike from 1975 that tried to warn him of this very situation. He realizes that it will do no good because he never heeded the warning. with this new found understanding Alex waits 9 days, buys a flack jacket and sets himself up to get shot by the CIA. As the deed is done he is happy to see his twin watching from some nearby bushes in horror. With both his twin and the CIA gone, he and Mike take the time machine and go on adventures through time, never to return to their own, thus assuring that Mike turn up missing and Alex presumed dead.
This retelling is self consistant if followed from the individual time traveler's points-of-view. Cause always led to effect, though from a stationary point-of-view it may seem slightly convoluted.
I hope this answered some of your points, or questions. I also hope it raised others. Feel free to ask for clarification on anything as I tend to be wordy. Though you may just want to ask lucidus, somehow he tends to explain my Laws better than I do.
Warning, this is a long post.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"JRSpencer\")</div>
Yes.
Now on to your story.
I read your story and I'm afraid I failed to see the relevance to Third Law, but I'll subject it to the Laws anyway. Without all the plot and kibble, your story boils down to the following logical scenario: Alex attempts to prevent his death by sending Mike 30 years into the future in an attempt to warn himself. Putting aside the motivations and possible failings of this attempt, the Laws of Chronodynamics allow Alex to survive his death in only one way. To understand how, lets look at this story from a Chronodynamic viewpoint.
Note: stationary observer here refers to a non-time-traveling observer.
Lets look at the pertinant events of Alex's life in chronological order, that is the order in which they occur from the point of view of a stationary observer.
Alex is born. He grows up. He becomes a scientist. He becomes involved with the CIA in a project. A man named Mike approaches him and warns him of his death 30 years hence and gives him information with which to make money to build his own machine. Mike leaves. Alex evidently ignores Mikes advise since the story seems to indicate that he did not build his own machine with his ill gotten loot. 30 years pass during which Alex works on his machine or the CIA and hires a young assistant by the name of Mike. Alex travels to 2009 and learns of his death in 2005. Understandably upset Alex travels to 2005 to witness his death, whereupon he sees himself get shot. He then goes back to his original starting point, March 16, 2005. He tells Mike about what happened and sends him to 1975 to warn himself. Mike returns seconds before he leaves and declares "Mission Accomplished!" Or is it? Alex recognises Mike as the same Mike from 1975 that tried to warn him of this very situation. He realizes that it will do no good because he never heeded the warning. with this new found understanding Alex waits 9 days, buys a flack jacket and sets himself up to get shot by the CIA. As the deed is done he is happy to see his twin watching from some nearby bushes in horror. With both his twin and the CIA gone, he and Mike take the time machine and go on adventures through time, never to return to their own, thus assuring that Mike turn up missing and Alex presumed dead.
This retelling is self consistant if followed from the individual time traveler's points-of-view. Cause always led to effect, though from a stationary point-of-view it may seem slightly convoluted.
I hope this answered some of your points, or questions. I also hope it raised others. Feel free to ask for clarification on anything as I tend to be wordy. Though you may just want to ask lucidus, somehow he tends to explain my Laws better than I do.
StarLord
Senior Member
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Re: Three Laws of Chronodynamics
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Chronodynamic Jim\")</div>
That's a waste of energy and time. I would have gone back in time prior to the attack, set out 'Hunter-killer asteroids' equiped with FTL drive, a sensor/scan suite and a 100lb payload of Quantum Anti Matter(not to be confused with regular Anti Matter). All defense mechanisms are equipped to only actuate when Alien craft appear as they are not generating a specific signal.
the Alien ships appear, the killer asteroids go into action with a small 'jump'. Nano seconds before contact, their systems are scanned and copied to an array of several hundred, but much larger, similar type asteroids which each holds a 1000lb payload of Quantum Anti Matter and a pay load of the smaller
'hunter-killer' asteroids originally used to destroy the original attackers. The 4 Alien ships are instantly destroyed, their originating coordinates are used to set the several hundred 'killer asteroids' on their way with a neat little twist. They themselves would go back into time and destroy the 'Home World' (which would take only one of the killer asteroids) The others would lie in wait and follow visiting Alien craft to their other inhabited planets, destroying it and leaving one or two to lie in wait.
A few years of this, Bob's yer uncle and no more Aliens.
Pass the Grakah please.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Chronodynamic Jim\")</div>
That's a waste of energy and time. I would have gone back in time prior to the attack, set out 'Hunter-killer asteroids' equiped with FTL drive, a sensor/scan suite and a 100lb payload of Quantum Anti Matter(not to be confused with regular Anti Matter). All defense mechanisms are equipped to only actuate when Alien craft appear as they are not generating a specific signal.
the Alien ships appear, the killer asteroids go into action with a small 'jump'. Nano seconds before contact, their systems are scanned and copied to an array of several hundred, but much larger, similar type asteroids which each holds a 1000lb payload of Quantum Anti Matter and a pay load of the smaller
'hunter-killer' asteroids originally used to destroy the original attackers. The 4 Alien ships are instantly destroyed, their originating coordinates are used to set the several hundred 'killer asteroids' on their way with a neat little twist. They themselves would go back into time and destroy the 'Home World' (which would take only one of the killer asteroids) The others would lie in wait and follow visiting Alien craft to their other inhabited planets, destroying it and leaving one or two to lie in wait.
A few years of this, Bob's yer uncle and no more Aliens.
Pass the Grakah please.
Chronodynamic Jim
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Re: Three Laws of Chronodynamics
^^ Wow. So many words, so little content.
^^ Wow. So many words, so little content.
StarLord
Senior Member
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- 3,187
Re: Three Laws of Chronodynamics
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Chronodynamic Jim\")</div>
That's all theories in a nut shell. They are just that untill proven correct.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Chronodynamic Jim\")</div>
^^ Wow. So many words, so little content.
That's all theories in a nut shell. They are just that untill proven correct.