Harte
Senior Member
The employment situation, in several different ways.
The GDP.
Stock market.
Economy in general.
Etc.
Harte
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Civil War
- Thread starter HDRKID
- Start date
The GDP.
Stock market.
Economy in general.
Etc.
Harte
Yes. As long as what you're saying is that there no real difference between Al Gore and a Antifa.
On a political theory basis alone there are degrees of "leftness", "rightness", or "middleness". Everyone has different beliefs and those beliefs don't always fully agree with the core beliefs of a group. As such, there are different "degrees" of belief.
Maybe what you're implying is more that a wacko, is a wacko, is a wacko. This is true. But that still doesn't mean that the particular wacko's beliefs don't fall somewhere on the spectrum.
All of these things were on the uptick under the Obama administration. Despite some unique methodology, the Trump administration has kept things going on an upward path, but the question still is whether that upward path is the top of a bell curve leading to another recession. Yet the Trump administration claims these "wins" as its own. With the ongoing international tariff war, it will be interesting to see whether the Trump administration will take responsibility for the eventual losses.
Kairos
Senior Member
No, dude. That is not what I am saying.
If you believe there exists such a thing as a political spectrum, then there must be some measurable quality that underpins the left-right axis. This means there has to be some quality underneath "leftness" that connects Al Gore to Antifa to even Stalin, with the difference being only the degree of which they they possess that quality.
There exists no such thing. Not on what we colloquially call the right or the left.
This left-right paradigm is bogus. Really, any time somebody tries to divide up politics into a cartesian coordinate system, they either fool themselves or they are trying to fool you.
Harte
Senior Member
Hardly.
Notably, the DJIA and the GDP were both low.
In fact, right now in terms of the GDP and unemployment we are already well outside of Obama's "new normal."
Harte
I get it. That "measurable quality" is something political scientists have been trying to find ever since political science became a thing. You think it doesn't exist. I think it may exist but is based more on predispositions that can be put on a spectrum if the right questions are asked during a study (taking into consideration that the spectrum will change over time based upon cultural changes).
So, now, about that upcoming civil war....
California splitting into multiple states could be a precursor. If things get bad enough we might even see certain states split from the union. But the climate would have to be really bad for this to happen. I just don't see things getting that bad. We would have to have a real authoritarian power leading the nation for states to really consider splitting off. The checks and balances won't let that happen unless the leader brainwashes the lower branches.
titorite
Senior Member
Their IS a political spectrum... A left and right and centrist. In this order from left to right, radical, liberal, moderate, conservative , reactionary. Few people swing to the extremes ad most are somewhere closer to the center levels. As for people that cant rationally talk politics without resorting to violence, these are normally simple minded people as demonstrated by their preference to resort to violence as opposed to rational discussion of some sort.
Thing is, we should examine who is really resorting to violence. At a recent event in Portland yall may of heard about antifa clashed with proud prayer people and the news said their was rioting and violence everywhere... but who really started the violence. Fortunately 1st amendment auditors are everywhere.
Film the police, hold authority accountable, Know your rights.
Harte
Senior Member
Not necessarily.
There could be a quality underpinning the liberal philosophy, yes. But the degree to which one possesses that particular quality doesn't necessarily make one more or less radical in the belief.
There are many qualities to particular political philosophies. Too much of any of them, or too many of all of them, could account for the difference between Stalin and Al Gore - or Sam Nunn if you remember that guy.
Harte
Kairos
Senior Member
For there to be a left-right axis, there must be a quality that spans the entire axis, including on the right. The quality has to invert as you cross some zero point.
Breaking down everybody's political ideas into a cartesian coordinate system is ridiculous. Just for the purpose of general discourse, I guess you have to use the "left" as the signifier for the people who want to destroy western civilization. I prefer degenerate, personally, but whatever.
edit:
This quality has to be more than just some one thing (like property rights). It has to make the fundamental distinction that differentiates everybody along this axis. Certainly you can use something like property rights, but that's not a very meaningful representation of the political ideas out there.
The -- in my opinion -- correct and intellectually honest way to look at politics is as collections of values and philosophical arguments. Comparing and contrasting them is fine, but trying to organize them into some political space is nonsensical. We don't do that with any other philosophical systems. Is Sartre's existentialism twenty points to the left of St. Thomas's Aristotelianism? Think about how absurd this is.
When I use the word "left", I really just mean the collection of ideologies and values that are bent towards the destruction of western civilization and natural rights, and embrace a culture of death. There are several broad groups in there that don't actually share the same philosophical arguments at all. Their intermediate goals might be similar, but their motivations and their teleological ends are totally different.Last edited:
So when you use the word "right", do you really just mean the collection of ideologies and values that are bent toward isolation and increasing the value of one set of people over all others? If you, know, we're talking about the far ends of the "spectrum"
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