Frauds and lies

[Unintentional]

Frauds and lies

When Oklahoma City bombing happened, everyone was running around saying, "Terrorists! Terrorists!", but I had a "feeling" in the back of my head that it was home grown domestic.

When 9-11 happened, I had the same "feeling" that somehow the extreme political right was responsible.

The problem with conspiracies is that it is so hard to prove, if ever.

 

[StarLord]

Frauds and lies

The only two possibilities for 'benefit', though I am loath to use that term when A Major Attack of any type is considered, Would be:

Bush because possibly, he may use the excuse of 'protecting' us from terrorists and thereby retain power, cancel the elections, take over ALL of North America including Mexico, Institute all kinds of BS to insure our protection by alleviating the general public of their Constitutional Rights and personal Freedom.

Then Bin Laden benefits for obvious reasons. But not as much as Bush would.

Poor kerry is SOL no matter what happens, as he is so ineffectual, he will get impeached if the crap hits the fan or later if it doesn't as the "all poop thats fit to read" will finally surface regarding him. Then again it may not and then we are in even deeper crap. Word Intended, Thank You Very Much. Take THAT You Territorial Monitor You.

 

[Unintentional]

Frauds and lies

Originally posted by Cornelia@Sep 27 2004, 03:20 PM

Say that together: \"When Bush was President, an oil billionaire hiding in a cave planned the worst terror attack of the whole history because he and his friends were jealous of american freedom.\"
How does this sound?

​

Yes, it does sound nutty. Unfortunately the USA ineffectual education system has forced politicians to boil everything down to simplistic arguments because most Americans would not understand the real reasons or arguments.

In a way extremist muslims are jealous. When I was in the middle east I constantly heard the complaint/propaganda that the US only gives aid to Israel and nothing to Muslim states. I know that is not true, you know that is not true, but that is how they feel about it because that is what they have been told. I guess Arafat needed to tell his people something why they never saw the billions of dollars we flushed down the drain sending it to Arafat to distribute.

Have you ever read OBL's declaration of war? Very nutty. Two points stuck out when I first read it:
1. He can't stand US military in Saudi Arabia. (The reason we were there, by the way we are not now, was to buffer Saudi Arabia from an attack from Sadam after he invade Kuwait. Did that sink in? One reason he issued a fatwa against the US was were defending SA from Sadam. Just another non excitant connection between Sadam and OSL.)

2. He said we dragged our feet stopping Milosovich from genocide against Muslims. (Now which is it? Does he want us to help Muslims or not? If we put troops in Bosnia, would he have added our presence there as reason for a fatwa? I have heard there is no Arabic word for democracy, there must also be none for hypocrisy.)

 

[Cornelia]

Frauds and lies

smuda,
you asked for honesty and I honestly tell you what I know.
The Saddam invasion of Kuwait was a pretext to put troops in Saudi Arabia, kingdom of oil and crazy princes. You never know where SA can go when the old king will die, so it's better to put a foot and watch closely.
From what I've read (from leading UK press, not arabian!), the USA allowed Saddam to invade Kuwait. Kuwaitians were disturbing Iraq in many ways (like stealing their oil from the borders, using troops to scare Iraq at the borders, asking for money etc), and Saddam called the US ambassador and ask what to do. The ambassador (a woman, I don't recall the name) answered exactly "We don't care if you invade Kuwait. It's an arabian business, and we are not interested in such fightings". Saddam invaded Kuwait, USA invaded Iraq and put troops in Arabia.

About Osama, I tend not to believe in what oil billionaires say. They always have an hidden agenda us poor peasants can't understand. And when I say "peasants", I mean us westerners but arabian people too: if we are told BS, they are on the same boat. Plenty of BS in our and their media to make us hate each other by purpose.

 

[sosuemetoo]

Frauds and lies

Originally posted by Cornelia@Sep 27 2004, 02:20 PM
Before someone mentions Spain elections and 3/11, is my duty (as the official EU representative here ) to remind you that the Spanish didn't vote Aznar out of office because of the attack, but because he repeatedly LIED to them trying to blame the ETA (spanish terrorists) instead of Al Qaida.

Yes Cornelia, and this fact was not reported (if it was it a one liner) by US major news networks (ABC, CBS, NBC) . It was reported on Fox, I ran over to the BBC to find out more information.

Say that together: \"When Bush was President, an oil billionaire hiding in a cave planned the worst terror attack of the whole history because he and his friends were jealous of american freedom.\"
How does this sound?

It'll sound better after I edit it "When Bush was President, an oil billionaire hiding in a cave planned the worst terror attack of the whole history because he and his friends felt it was contrary to their religious/cultural beliefs and westerners were contrary to those beliefs"

><

"Mom"

 

[sosuemetoo]

Frauds and lies

Originally posted by Cornelia@Sep 28 2004, 05:53 AM
From what I've read (from leading UK press, not arabian!), the USA allowed Saddam to invade Kuwait. Kuwaitians were disturbing Iraq in many ways (like stealing their oil from the borders, using troops to scare Iraq at the borders, asking for money etc), and Saddam called the US ambassador and ask what to do. The ambassador (a woman, I don't recall the name) answered exactly \"We don't care if you invade Kuwait. It's an arabian business, and we are not interested in such fightings\". Saddam invaded Kuwait, USA invaded Iraq and put troops in Arabia.

Cornelia - If you could find a link for this story, I'd appreciate it. I searched, but couldn't find it.

Plenty of BS in our and their media to make us hate each other by purpose.

I couldn't agree with you more here. It seems like there is a "war of words" to make different groups of people dislike one another (US against the French, vise-versa, Middle East against the US, etc). I wish I understood better what the underlying purpose was. We all have to live in this world together and we are all in the same boat, more or less.

"Mom"

 

[Cornelia]

Frauds and lies

sosu,
I've read an extensive story on the book "Middle East Wars, Part One". The whole story was taken from American press or books. Online, I made a quick search and found, among many, this link:
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27c/057.html
This tells the story of the USA ambassador, which is well known among historians and not disputed.

It seems like there is a \"war of words\" to make different groups of people dislike one another (US against the French, vise-versa, Middle East against the US, etc). I wish I understood better what the underlying purpose was. We all have to live in this world together and we are all in the same boat, more or less.

If you want to know more about this strategy, I may suggest the reading of "Clash of civilizations" by Michael Huntington. A lot of commentators say that this is the book which inspired the hawks of White House.
Anyway, my idea is quite simple: *our* leaders want to keep us quiet while they kill innocent people to steal their oil; *their* leaders want to keep them angry to get an help against us (innocent people too). If only the innocent people would understand and begin to play together... well, all these corrupted leaders would be screwed!

@);-

Cornelia

PS I love these fair talkings! ><

 

[sosuemetoo]

Frauds and lies

Thank you for the links Cornelia. I really do appreciate the different perspective you bring on this board!

"Mom"

 

[Judge Bean]

Frauds and lies

Originally posted by Cornelia@Sep 28 2004, 04:46 PM
...This tells the story of the USA ambassador, which is well known among historians and not disputed.

...\"Clash of civilizations\" by Michael Huntington. A lot of commentators say that this is the book which inspired the hawks of White House.
Anyway, my idea is quite simple: *our* leaders want to keep us quiet while they kill innocent people to steal their oil; *their* leaders want to keep them angry to get an help against us (innocent people too). If only the innocent people would understand and begin to play together... well, all these corrupted leaders would be screwed!

​

The story of the conversation between the two officials is wellknown, though the precise meaning of the ambiguous statement is disputed; and for good reason, since it was deliberately put in ambassador lingo to allow it to be taken by the Iraqis as the go-ahead for the invasion of Kuwait.

I take your summary of the world "political" situation to be true to the mark, but I don't think there are any actual "leaders" left; I'm afraid that the ones running things are not identified as such, and that their actions are directed toward maximizing untaxed profits, and removing them in the form of protected cash from the debilitated economies generating them. This is what in fact has happened already in Afghanistan, which was conquered solely for the purpose of installing a pipeline.

I don't think there's any real "politics" left.

 

[CaryP]

Frauds and lies

Sorry to bust in on the conversation, but this needed a place to go. If you're interested in how long and how many places the U.S. govt. has stuck its nose, and why most of the world hates us, take a look.

Cary

America was founded by revolutionary ideals

No, there's no text to copy, you just need to go to the link.