JREF - Million Dollar Challenge

Whitelight

Active Member
Messages
627
JREF - Million Dollar Challenge

There are a ton of things we could talk about the JREF, but I thought I'd put something up about the challenge. I hear their ending it this year, after years and years of no one ever passing the preliminary test.

I'm not sure how many here claim some sort of paranormal ability, but of those who do, would you apply? Think about it, it's a million dollars if you can prove something paranormal.

James Randi challenged Sylvia Browne a few years ago on Lary King live, she finally said she would do the test, but has been dodging him for years now.

First she said she didn't care about the money, then she said she didn't believe it existed. Statements showing the money in the bank account were sent to her. Then she said she wanted it in escrow. And going forward, James Randi even agreed to that, and that he would put the money in escrow with Montel Williams, who is a known friend and promoter of Sylvia's abilities. Yet he recieved no reply, he also offered the same with Larry King who did not reply either.

So what do you all think? Would you apply?
 

Num7

Administrator
Staff
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12,608
Re: JREF - Million Dollar Challenge

The JREF is itself only a preliminary test, the real test is to convince Harte.

Perhaps there's nothing in the world that is truly paranormal or psychic... I don't like to see it that way, it sounds too boring. I'd like to hear that someone won the challenge, but I doubt about it.

What about that guy who could set fire in newspapers with his mind ? lol

I'd not apply, I don't have any gift or paranormal/psychic skills at all. Nothing.
 

TimeWizardCosmo

Senior Member
Zenith
Messages
2,937
Re: JREF - Million Dollar Challenge

I have the uncanny ability to turn everything I touch into shit. Maybe I should give this guy a call ;)

Yeah, whatever happened to the newspaper fire guy? Or the guy who could summon UFOs?
 

Whitelight

Active Member
Messages
627
Re: JREF - Million Dollar Challenge

Numenorean7 said:
The JREF is itself only a preliminary test, the real test is to convince Harte.


That's like a Chuck Norris fact haha.



The guy that can call UFO's, Yaweh, he applied but didn't make it to testing. He started being threatening. He said he needed armed security while they witnessed it, and JREF called it off concerned about their skeptic testers safety.
 

JasperMoon

Active Member
Messages
643
Re: JREF - Million Dollar Challenge

I wrote to Randi about that time when he started offering this challenge and when Sylvia Browne was considering taking him up on it. I asked him point blank a question if he would accept the relaying of something that happened already. He said no, that he had to witness it himself in order for him to believe it. I don't remember exactly how I put the question to him, but his answer came back like he wasn't going to believe anything even if it was staring him in the face and bit him in the arse. I was going to tell him about my story, but after that, I said I was going to keep it to myself instead. The humiliation isn't worth it. And he would put anyone who was sincere through the ringer first. And then probably renig by saying it was all a hoax.
 

cmac

Member
Messages
161
Re: JREF - Million Dollar Challenge

People like Randi don't believe anything that isn't general public knowledge or listed in every high school science book. His explanations of things are a way bigger joke than the claims he thinks are a joke. Just like people laughed at Einstein, now he is a genius, people laughed at Tesla, now we know he was one of the greatest minds. Always the great minds are scoffed at until after they die, and then what they theorized is taken as the way it is.

Randi, thinks he knows everything. Nothing like having a limited perception, and believing that you are more intelligent than everyone, pride and ego, pride and ego. Never mind millions of people claiming things, Randi knows it can't be, so it isn't. All those people are just delusional to him. Why even bother trying to prove anything to these type of people? One day it will all be common knowledge, just like what always happens. He makes the rules that you have follow completely, what a joke.

That's why no one takes him up on his offer, you can meet his ridiculous standards for proof.
 

Harte

Senior Member
Messages
4,562
Re: JREF - Million Dollar Challenge

People like Randi don't believe anything that isn't general public knowledge or listed in every high school science book. His explanations of things are a way bigger joke than the claims he thinks are a joke. Just like people laughed at Einstein, now he is a genius, people laughed at Tesla, now we know he was one of the greatest minds. Always the great minds are scoffed at until after they die, and then what they theorized is taken as the way it is.
That's a good one.

Care to enumerate all these people that laughed at Einstein and Tesla?

I didn't think so.

Randi, thinks he knows everything. Nothing like having a limited perception, and believing that you are more intelligent than everyone, pride and ego, pride and ego. Never mind millions of people claiming things, Randi knows it can't be, so it isn't.

No, Randi knows how to do all these tricks without any supernatural ability. He was a stage magician for years before he started JREF.

All those people are just delusional to him. Why even bother trying to prove anything to these type of people?
Gee, I dunno. Maybe for the million bucks?

People here should go to Randi's website and read the stipulations in the contest rules. Randi has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual conducting of any tests - nor with designing any tests.

In fact, the test are designed and agreed upon jointly by elements of the JREF and the claimants themselves. That's right, if you make a claim, you get to decide how to test your own claim.

I wrote to Randi about that time when he started offering this challenge and when Sylvia Browne was considering taking him up on it. I asked him point blank a question if he would accept the relaying of something that happened already. He said no, that he had to witness it himself in order for him to believe it. I don't remember exactly how I put the question to him, but his answer came back like he wasn't going to believe anything even if it was staring him in the face and bit him in the arse. I was going to tell him about my story, but after that, I said I was going to keep it to myself instead. The humiliation isn't worth it. And he would put anyone who was sincere through the ringer first. And then probably renig by saying it was all a hoax.

Again, Randi is not involved in the testing so there is no "Randi wringer" to be put through.

Also, you were in a tiff because he refused to take seriously some story you had? That's anecdotal evidence and is absolutely meaningless.

If you think otherwise, then let me tell you mine.

I have this power to burn your fingers off through your keyboard the next time you try to post. I've already set this up as a psychic booby trap so you better not post again or you could lose your digits.

Now, if you post again I'm gonna have a hissy because you didn't believe my anecdotal evidence. I'm also going to point out the hypocrisy you betrayed by doing so.

Harte
 

Keroscene

Active Member
Messages
571
Re: JREF - Million Dollar Challenge

Tesla really didn't have anyone to blame but himself for his lack of success in the business world. He was a great inventor and a brilliant mind, but, from what I remember, he was horrible at managing his personal finances. He wasn't really a business man in the sense that Edison was. It was easier for Edison to promote his ideas and he succeeded because of that.

Einstein (indirectly) helped to build the atomic bomb. I think they probably took him pretty seriously.

I've seen some pretty convincing stuff on astral projection that really makes me wonder if it's possible. I don't think all of it is 100% accurate though.

Harte's right though, the JREF test rules are a mutual thing. The rules are made up for each situation and agreed on by both parties. There isn't really any set in stone rules because each situation can be totally different.

But personally, if I had access to any paranormal stuff on a regular basis and wanted to keep it that way I probably wouldn't advertise it to the entire world by tying to win a million dollar contest. But hey, that's just me.
 

cmac

Member
Messages
161
Re: JREF - Million Dollar Challenge

Well, good points guys, Harte and Keroscene. Well, I've heard that around a handful of people who claimed they tried to take up ol' Randi on his contest, according to them were met with ridiculous circumstances. I'll take these people's word for it, they said it was a joke to try to take him up on his offer, so no one bothers after a while I assume. So apparently whoever is in his group, I'm certain they are likely staunch skeptics who value their "opinions" just as much as Randi. If there is an ounce of truth in what these people have shared about their attempts, then Randi's little JREF program seems pretty much like a joke. Which Randi may subconsciously be backing up when I've seen him on TV discussing it, he is always laughing about it, so it must be a joke, right?

People still, even with all of Einsteins promotion to almost god like status today, still question his theories, which there is likely nothing wrong with questioning. I'm certain that in the early days he was questioned even more and likely scoffed at my most due to it being so beyond their current personal perception. I really don't think that even the greatest minds had it all figured out, and my personal belief is that anyone that thinks that they do or we do, is kidding themselves. But it is hard to see past our own personal perception, especially if it feels good to think we have no need to do so. It seems that most of Tesla's ideas were scoffed at, his ideas were taken and profited by, from many people. It is debateable what their motive was, but likely it was fame and fortune, and it seems that profits was the name of the game. Tesla's greatest accomplishments likely never saw the light of day, and probably still haven't. Is there really any doubt today that Tesla was virtually wiped from our consciousness? Most people don't even know who he is, never heard of him. Doesn't seem he is promoted in our school textbooks, then to find out the man was inventing tons of stuff, that those same textbooks give credit to others for. I wouldn't doubt that he was said to be not a great business man, likely he was too nice of a guy to be the shrewd business man, so I guess he was just taken advantage of. But of course to be looked up to in our society generally is more about how much money you make, from being an ass to people than how good of a person your are at heart. Once again things don't change much. Value always seems to be more in the monetary column or what is promoted to society, than the heart and soul, guess it must be human nature.

I just don't see how people expect us to advance ourselves much, with a fairly closed mind. But, to each his own. I won't dance on someone's free will, it is their life. After all you can lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink. You can only hope to plant a seed in someone's mind, and hope that one day it grows. With, some you might as well plant their head in the sand, as that seed.

There is a lot more going on around us and within us than what is deemed as common knowledge and then acknowledged by "science". A lot was going on in my personal life, that I wished to pass off as "weird", or "coincidence", or "that's just not possible", until I expanded my awareness and paid true attention to what was going on. At some point it got to such a regularity of it happening to where it becomes obvious, that it "is" happening. When you learn to pay attention to it, it's not just a now and then occurence. Funny, then to find out it is happening to millions of others, yet still according to what could be deemed "the public view", it isn't possible. Well, tell that to the millions that live it in their lives over the years.

Could I, or others "prove" it to James Randi? I seriously doubt it, not because it doesn't happen, just as these people are saying that it does, but likely because Randi, would choose to still not believe it. At some point why waste our time, with closed minds? They already know the truth, so no need to consider another point of view. Ever notice how those types don't really listen, and they laugh a lot, and scoff, and belittle? Of course they want respect, which all of us do, nice if they could keep that in mind, but it seems to be easier for them to just laugh and belittle. Funny how many seem to follow these same guidelines. Instead of listening, and pondering, researching from angles outside of their own common beliefs.

I was once a staunch, left brain, analytical, logical, rational thinker, and made excuses for things that were going on in my life and others claims, for years, but those "rational" ways of thinking just didn't make sense with some things. I choose now to take a broader view. You finally see that something well beyond what is supposed to be reality, is going on. Unfortunately our innate need to "fit in" with the viewpoint of what we "believe" is the general view constantly takes over. All I did was pass off some incredible things, that I should have considered more, but I continued to follow the belief system of the day.

In my personal opinion the only way to find what is truly possible is to look at things with all perceptional viewpoints considered, and considered strongly, instead of the view of "well that just can't happen", which is a narrow perceptional field of view any way you slice and dice it. Otherwise we might as well live on a flat Earth hadn't we?

I think history has proven well, that the majority of the greatest thinkers of their day, were made fun of and their theories thought impossible. Most of these until after their deaths, and then their genius was generally realized. Heck from what we are told about earlier progressive minds, they had to keep their beliefs a secret, to keep from being beheaded, or hung, murdered, threatened or locked up, for what went against the common beliefs of the day and often the church or religions. Nothing like persecution for your beliefs Is it really any surprise that things haven't really changed that much? It seems to be a constant in human nature. In my opinion we continue to hold ourselves back with our conditioned belief systems.
 

Keroscene

Active Member
Messages
571
Re: JREF - Million Dollar Challenge

Does Tesla really deserve equal recognition with Edison in the history books though? He may have invented a few great things, but Edison invented far more that was both useful and not useful and that's why he gets the recognition. It isn't only because of his success at being a shrewd businessman, he was also a great inventor and quite arguably a better one that Tesla. We can't fill history books with things Tesla possibly could have invented but no body knows for sure if he did. It's not as if Edison doesn't deserve more recognition, how much does he really get in your basic classroom history books now? Maybe a page or two? Tesla isn't really covered in the basic classroom history books because there's no point in filling pages with the "almost made it" guys. There's a ton of inventors who had a couple few great inventions but the ones who consistently invent useful things are the ones who make it into the history books. It's because of that Edison made it and not because there's any kind of conspiracy to intentionally hide Tesla's work, IMO.

For every 1 great inventor out there, there are a 1000 crackpots. In the educational community there is always disagreement. I also think some disagreed with Einstein and Tesla and still do, but I doubt there's anyone in the scientifc community who didn't take either of their theories or inventions seriously. On the flip side I doubt there's one person in this world who shares the exact same viewpoint on every different scientific topic with another person in the same field. THere will always be disagreement on theories until it can be tried and proven.

I also believe that it's quite possible paranormal stuff exists, but I think the JREF gets far more crackpots trying to just get the million bucks than they do anyone who truly has paranormal abilities. Just because he exposes alot of crackpots for what they truly are doesn't lead me to believe the test is intentionally rigged. It's ridiculous and almost a state of denial to not acknowledge how many snake oil salesman and crackpots there truly are. I don't think the JREF test is rigged by default because it exposes them.
 

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