minuteman project and Waco type events thread

[Judge Bean]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Originally posted by Cornelia@Jun 22 2004, 01:41 PM
... and try also to make my points in some short sentences (we can forgive Paul and August for long posts because they post only once or less per day).
...

Now, let's go back to John Titor once for all!

That the only reason you forgive us?

* * * *

Smood:

Someone asked "Didn't Bush Lose?" or something like that. I answered, properly, that he lost the (overall) popular vote, and would have lost the election IF he had lost the Florida popular vote. Period.

We need to clarify these details to continue the discussion of Titor's theory, or prediction, that there will be a civil war in America due to the president's (whether it's Bush, Gore, or somebody else) destruction of the Constitution and the targeting of citizens as enemies of the State.

The engineered national election that could, may, or might occur in November is a key element of the Titor story because it stands the chance of igniting civil unrest, especially given that the country is split down the middle politically right now. Recent history has demonstrated to us that civil unrest can lead to demonstrations, which can become riots, and pit the police and national guard against the citizens. Those arrested in such situations are not all criminals, or violent, or actually guilty of any misconduct: review the list of prominent Americans, such as Jesse Jackson, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Norman Mailer who have been arrested this way.

You will certainly find no "conservatives" on the list, granted; but you will find many, many American citizens exercising their God-given rights to speak out and resist the government. Shall we leave it to the government to decide who is worthy of arrest, detention, and worse? The answer is no. The decision was left to the citizens and magistrates, according to the Constitution.

The Constitution gets attacked and diluted every day, and still works, but there are things that can wreck it. One such thing is government overreaction to dissent; another is civil unrest, civil war, or deeply divisive public opinion.

That is how the Bush election question works into the Titor issues. We can stay on topic if we don't view the future in terms of whether Bush will cause a civil war, or whether Al Franken will ever be a decent writer of English, or whether any comedian, news network, or cartoonist speaks for any great number of people. The future, according to Titor, is a graveyard. It's full of conservatives, liberals, and most of modern civilization. My opinion is: Titor must be stopped.

His vision is stained, corrupt, and inhuman. His opinion of America is so low that he has no trouble telling us that we will shuck the rule of law and go for the Power game. It is contrary to our best hopes, but we also have to constantly be vigilant, even fanatic (as Goldwater and Reagan used to say) about our freedom.

Whether or not Titor is from the future may be answered by seeing his prophecies apparently come true. Shall we sit around and wait for the final answer?

As Cornelia said, Titor is not so much a timetraveler as a time-bomb.

 

[HackimerRob]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

This IMHO is TOTALLY describing a waco type event, although quite small, the guy described at the end of this article refused to give his name repeatedly to officers, and so they arrested him.
ARRESTED? What ever happened to miranda? The 5th Ammendment?

http://prisonplanet.tv/articles/june2004/0...inaloffense.htm

 

[Judge Bean]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Originally posted by Hackimer, Rob@Jun 23 2004, 11:11 PM
This IMHO is TOTALLY describing a waco type event, although quite small, the guy described at the end of this article refused to give his name repeatedly to officers, and so they arrested him.
ARRESTED? ?What ever happened to miranda? ?The 5th Ammendment?

http://prisonplanet.tv/articles/june2004/0...inaloffense.htm

The seed of a Waco-type event, but the cops have actually been doing this for years in poor neighborhoods and calling it "gang enforcement," which, of course, means exactly the opposite of what it says.

Now it's a white guy in Nevada-- the most conservative sort of voter, I would imagine. But it has for a long time been nonwhite guys in neighborhoods "known to be high crime, drug, and gang activity areas."

You briefly detain someone walking along minding his own business and ask him to identify himself. You don't have to show suspicion-- show it? Who are you supposed to show it to? The "suspect?"

Miranda only applies to custodial interrogation which elicits incriminating statements. If you want to use the statements against the wretch, you have to read him his rights first.

The Fifth Amendment applies to sworn testimony, and in some cases also to custodial interrogation (which they now consider to be testimonial in nature)-- but when you are briefly detained on the street, you are not technically in custody unless you are not free to leave. They will always say that you were perfectly free to leave. Also, asking for identification is not "interrogation," and your name is not considered incriminating anyway.

I'm going to have to hold another class on the Constitution, I guess-- or what's left of it.

 

[August]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Hack,

Great article. We are going to see more and more of these stories. I have come across a few bizarre stories--more bizarre than the Nevada rancher. But I want to try to confirm the sources.

Of course the big story in my town will not be reported. I am not even sure it is a story. The anti-war protesters that protest every Sunday have not been seen for a few months. Did they get tired?

 

[HackimerRob]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

August Posted on Jun 24 2004, 01:52 AM
Hack,

Great article. We are going to see more and more of these stories. I have come across a few bizarre stories--more bizarre than the Nevada rancher. But I want to try to confirm the sources.

Of course the big story in my town will not be reported. I am not even sure it is a story. The anti-war protesters that protest every Sunday have not been seen for a few months. Did they get tired?

WHAT? Did you know of any of these people? You should ask around. You don't think...
how long were they doing that every sunday for until they stopped?

Maybe they're all in .... well. What do YOU think?

 

[August]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

WHAT? Did you know of any of these people? You should ask around. You don't think...
how long were they doing that every sunday for until they stopped?

Maybe they're all in .... well. What do YOU think?

You are asking what I think? My middle name is "El Paranoido Mucho Gusto"!

I knew none of them. A while back I approached a few and asked if they had been harrassed. They both thought I was a Federal agent and refused to talk with me. 'oh!:

They have been protesting the war there as far back as late 2002. Every Sunday. Like clockwork.

I am already too good at alienating people at cocktail parties and other functions. I could step it up a notch by saying something like "You know those anti-war protesters down on Main every Sunday? So do you think they've gone mass grave or something? Boy this trout pate is terrific!"

 

[Cornelia]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

August,
you should google this:
"Madres de Plaza de Mayo", in english sites.
Your story remind me that. They were old ladies down in Chile, in '70s and '80s, protesting every Thursday in the Plaza De Mayo in Santiago, because their sons and nephews were been arrested and never seen again. Since Chile was a dictature, and they were not allowed to protest, they put on white hats and walked around the Plaza for hours, like they were only having a walk.
Those ladies become heroes of freedom, now some of them are leaders of the global movement.

If you want to find out what happened to "your" protesters, do this:
go to the Main Street in the exact place where they used to be; enter a shop, buy something, talk nicely with the shopkeeper, and at last ask "oh, I've seen those marches have come to an end. You should be happy of this..." and see what he say. The shopkeepers love to show they know everything, and love to gossip. If there's a cafe, it's great: in a caf? you can get a lot of informations!

But keep us informed!

 

[August]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Cornelia,

August,
you should google this:
\"Madres de Plaza de Mayo\", in english sites.
Your story remind me that. They were old ladies down in Chile, in '70s and '80s, protesting every Thursday in the Plaza De Mayo in Santiago, because their sons and nephews were been arrested and never seen again. Since Chile was a dictature, and they were not allowed to protest, they put on white hats and walked around the Plaza for hours, like they were only having a walk.
Those ladies become heroes of freedom, now some of them are leaders of the global movement.

Just your summary is inspiring--I will research this.

If you want to find out what happened to \"your\" protesters, do this:
go to the Main Street in the exact place where they used to be; enter a shop, buy something, talk nicely with the shopkeeper, and at last ask \"oh, I've seen those marches have come to an end. You should be happy of this...\" and see what he say. The shopkeepers love to show they know everything, and love to gossip. If there's a cafe, it's great: in a caf? you can get a lot of informations!

Very good advice. Actually, there is a cafe right there on the corner. I will do as you say. They might love gossip but they also might be the reason for the protesters' absence. And they may keep quiet.

I could always do the American thing and get a sign of my own. And see what cattle truck they put me on.

 

[Cornelia]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

LOL!
I made a mistake!
It was not in Chile, but Argentina!
(Anyway, still a bad dictature...)

 

[August]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Sensors are picking up...a showdown, Captain.

from www.thehill.com

June 24, 2004

?Fahrenheit 9/11? ban?
Ads for Moore?s movie could be stopped on July 30
By Alexander Bolton


Michael Moore may be prevented from advertising his controversial new movie, ?Fahrenheit 9/11,? on television or radio after July 30 if the Federal Election Commission (FEC) today accepts the legal advice of its general counsel.

At the same time, a Republican-allied 527 soft-money group is preparing to file a complaint against Moore?s film with the FEC for violating campaign-finance law.

In a draft advisory opinion placed on the FEC?s agenda for today?s meeting, the agency?s general counsel states that political documentary filmmakers may not air television or radio ads referring to federal candidates within 30 days of a primary election or 60 days of a general election.

steve finn/Getty images
Michael Moore

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The opinion is generated under the new McCain-Feingold campaign-finance law, which prohibits corporate-funded ads that identify a federal candidate before a primary or general election.

The proscription is broadly defined. Section 100.29 of the federal election regulations defines restricted corporate-funded ads as those that identify a candidate by his ?name, nickname, photograph or drawing? or make it ?otherwise apparent through an unambiguous reference.?

Should the six members of the FEC vote to approve the counsel?s opinion, it could put a serious crimp on Moore?s promotion efforts. The flavor of the movie was encapsulated by a recent review in The Boston Globe as ?the case against George W. Bush, a fat compendium of previously reported crimes, errors, sins, and grievances delivered in the director?s patented tone of vaudevillian social outrage.?

The FEC ruling may also affect promotion of a slew of other upcoming political documentaries and films, such as ?Uncovered: The Whole Truth About the Iraq War,? which opens in August, ?The Corporation,? about democratic institutions being subsumed by the corporate agenda, or ?Silver City,? a recently finished film by John Sayles that criticizes the Bush administration.

Another film, ?The Hunting of the President,? which investigates whether Bill Clinton was the victim of a vast conspiracy, could be subject to regulations if it mentions Bush or members of Congress in its ads.

Since the FEC considers the Republican presidential convention scheduled to begin Aug. 30 a national political primary in which Bush is a candidate, Moore and other politically oriented filmmakers could not air any ad mentioning Bush after July 30.
That could make advertising for the film after July difficult since it is all about the Bush administration and what Moore regards as its mishandling of the war on terrorism and the decision to invade Iraq.

After the convention, ads for political films that mention Bush or any other federal candidate would be subject to the restrictions on all corporate communications within 60 days of the Nov. 2 general election.

?Fahrenheit 9/11? opens nationally tomorrow.

The film?s distributor, Lions Gate Films, an incorporated organization, would almost certainly pay for its broadcast promotions.

David Bossie, the president of Citizens United, plans to allege that ?Fahrenheit 9/11? violates federal election law, arguing that ?Moore has publicly indicated his goal is to impact this election season.?

Bossie had planned to file a complaint with the FEC yesterday but postponed action because his lawyers want to review it at the last minute, said Summer Stitz, a spokeswoman for Bossie?s group.

?I don?t think much of Michael Moore or his two-hour political advertisement ? that?s all it is,? Bossie said. ?He uses all of these words to make it look like he makes documentaries, but it?s the furthest thing from the truth. Documentaries tend to be fact-based.?

Sarah Greenberg, a spokeswoman for Lions Gate Films who is serving as Moore?s spokeswoman, did not return a call for comment.

The FEC counsel?s draft advisory opinion responded to a request for guidance from David Hardy, a documentary film producer with the Bill of Rights Educational Foundation. Hardy asked whether he could air broadcast ads that refer to congressional officeholders who appear in his documentary.

At issue in the FEC?s opinion is whether documentary films qualify for a ?media exemption,? which allows members of the press to discuss political candidates freely in the days before an election.

In its opinion, the general counsel wrote, ?In McConnell vs. FEC ? (2003) the [Supreme] Court described the media exemption as ?narrow? and drew a distinction between ?corporations that are part of the media industry? as opposed to ?other corporations that are not involved in the regular business of imparting news to the public.??

?The radio and television commercials that you describe in your request would be electioneering communications,? the counsel concluded. ?The proposed commercials would refer to at least one presidential candidate. ? They would also be publicly distributed because you intend to pay a radio station and perhaps a television station to air or broadcast your commercials. ? Finally, they would reach 50,000 people within 30 days of a national nominating convention and or the general election.?

However, one commissioner, Michael Toner, has a different view of what restrictions may be placed on political films.

?I think there?s evidence that when Congress created the press exemption they intended for it to cover media in all its forms,? said Toner. ?If a documentary produced by an independent company would be subject to restriction or, equally important, if efforts to promote the documentary would be subject to restriction, I think that is very problematic.?