minuteman project and Waco type events thread

[TimeWizardCosmo]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Didn't GWB actually LOSE the last election? Maybe the same string of events will unfold this time....Which could be what sparks the beginnings of this "civil war".

Just a thought.

 

[Judge Bean]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Contrary to the Constitution, the president retains the power to suspend the civil rights of a portion of the population based solely on its race. By extension, there is no bar to the president suspending the rights of any targeted group.

As previously stated here, the basis of the suspension is the announcement of the commencement of hostilities, ?declaration of a state of emergency,? Presidential Proclamation or Executive Order, or formal Declaration of War, all of which serve to grant the Executive ?war powers.? Other situations which likely grant the same powers are United Nations Resolutions and the issuance of a federal warrant of arrest of a sovereign leader (which is then executed by the armed forces in an invasion).

This first step has already been taken by President Bush, who consistently refers to himself as "a war president," and constantly tells us that "we are at war." Congress has authorized funding; the troops are there under fire. This is war, and it more than qualifies to grant him the extra powers.

In the case of an ?incursion? or attack on the United States or its territories, or even the threat of such an attack, or in the event of civil unrest or natural catastrophe, the regulations are in place already which command the armed forces to take control of the cities; special Executive Orders and Proclamations may be issued to detain those deemed by the military to be in danger or to be the potential source of danger. (A very expensive and extensive procedure, including secret underground facilities, is now in place to accommodate a ?continuity of government? in the case of a nuclear attack or disaster of similar scale.)

What is keeping them this minute from taking this next step? Nothing but tenuous public opinion, which will change in a minute if there is an attack or largescale emergency.

The current state of the law as to ?consensual stop,? ?stop and frisk,? detention, custody, arrest, and a fixed period of incarceration, all depends on a subtle and complex system of checks and balances, with the threat of judicial review of abuses. A ?brief detention? on the street for identification purposes is now before the Supreme Court; for levels of restriction of liberty above the brief detention, the law requires an articulable reason or suspicion, and imprisonment for any length of time requires due process of law starting with an appearance in court within a short period of time.

All of this is swept away in the event of an emergency, and there need not be a formal declaration of either war or martial law.

In 1942, the people were removed by the military to ten camps, two each in Arkansas, Arizona, and California, and others in Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, and Colorado. (Beck and Haase, Historical Atlas 63, 77 (Univ. of Okla. Press 1989). All persons in the group were ordered out of their homes regardless of sex, age, citizenship status, or actual political affiliation.

Conditions in the camps were miserable and obviously intended to humiliate the inmates and emphasize the distrust and bigotry that sent them there. [Starr, Embattled Dreams, 90 (2002) (?We must move the Japanese in this coutnry into a concentration camp somewhere, someplace, and do it damn quickly? Don?t kid yourselves and don?t let someone tell you there are good Japs,? Rep. Alfred Elliott, speech to the House, Dec. 9, 1941)].

They were by no means conditions as low as suffered by targeted groups in Europe, Asia, and Russia, but the detainees were removed from lush agricultural and coastal regions into the desert interior, and, in any event, Japanese immigrants to America may have expected better treatment here than in Japan. [Masumoto, Country Voices 51 (1987); Starr, Embattled Dreams, 90 (2002); Abe, Police Power 5, 268-69 (1962) (before the Constitutional reforms of 1947, civil rights in Japan were restricted by the government and the chief means of criminal conviction was by coerced confession.)].

Everyone in the group had become a criminal suspect, arrested without a showing of reasonable suspicion or probable cause, and imprisoned indefinitely without a hearing, statement of charges, judgment, or sentence. In July 1944, two years later, 61,000 out of the original 120,000 still remained in the camps. After their release, 4,000 left the country for Japan. [Ex Parte Endo, 323 U.S. 283, 294 n.19 (1944)].

The Supreme Court case finding that the racist oppression of this group of Americans was justified under the circumstances (Korematsu v. U.S., 323 U.S. 214 (1944)) is still good law, and cited by the Court (as in Bakke, the ?reverse discrimination? case) as precedent and authority, despite its condemnation by State and federal courts nationwide, the exoneration of Korematsu himself, and reparations and official apologies.

Why go on about the 1942 Internment? If you have to ask, go back to the Constitution, read it again, and think long and hard about it. Doubtless you?ll discover the answer. If any group is a target, any other one can be, and the whole fabric of the country is ripped. This is not a new thing in our history; the point is that it shows remarkable or remarkably accidental foresight to warn of it in 2000-2001. Just as anyone might harbor a dangerous soul, so any government, even our modern "Western Democracies" (by which I suppose is meant Caucasian governments) has the potential to steal the freedom of its own people.

 

[Grayson]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Paul, I'm inspired to take a long hard look at this.

I'll get back to you. The whole Government Vs people thing fascinates me.

You have sown a seed on jaded ground.

 

[Judge Bean]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Originally posted by TheHeggy@Jun 18 2004, 09:32 PM
Didn't GWB actually LOSE the last election? Maybe the same string of events will unfold this time....Which could be what sparks the beginnings of this \"civil war\".

Just a thought.

Lost the popular vote. Won the Electoral College tally by squeaking through with Florida. If he had won the State of Florida popular vote, he'd have been elected.

His brother was the governor of Florida.

The vote was so close, and the State officials were so adamant in closing the counts, that the U.S. Supreme Court had to decide whether to do the final recount, decided it was not necessary, and basically awarded the office to Bush.

The Chief Justice, Rehnquist, has recently written a book gushing about the power of the Supreme Court in history to break the tie in a presidential election. He presided over only the second time in history (so far) when this was necessary.

If this happens again, you can expect there will be quite a bit of trouble.

 

[Unintentional]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Bush did win the popular vote in Florida.

Even Al Franken, author of Lying Liars and the Liars Who Tell Them, admits it. He is the self admitted champion of the left/liberal/democrats. Well he doesn't really admit it out right, but he does acknknowledge that the votes were recounted 10 times using different methods. Of the 10 methods, Bush wins anywhere from 10,000 votes to -40. Bush wins using 8 of the methods and Gore wins using 2 of them with a biggest margin of 40 votes.

BTW there was an official recount by the state of Florida. What the state officials objected to was 1. Gore only wanted a recount (third count) in the counties he already won big and thereby squeaking out a few more Gore votes hopefully and 2. Gore recounting and recounting until he finely won. and 3. delaying the selection of the delegates until it was too late and therefor not give Florida a voice at all in the electoral colege.

Isn't Bush like the third president to not win the popular vote and still be president? Did those incidents cause civil wars? Were American bigger back then? Did the losers actually get over it and then MOVEON with their lifes? Did they start a web site call MOVEON that ironically suggests no one get over it and then MOVEON with their life?

 

[Anoah]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

How many thousands of minority voters were disenfranchised in florida thanks to katherine harris? No wonder he got the majority vote.

 

[Unintentional]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

There was a lot of claims of minority voters getting disenfranchised, but as of almost 4 years later, it appears none of them had merit. Or else we would have heard of it.

What I wonder is how many thousands of Tallehasse voters (central time zone Floridians and BIG Bush supporters) did NOT vote after ABC called Florida for Gore BEFORE the votes closed! :angry:

But the Florida governor interpreted Friday's statement as a vindication of sorts. \"Today's statement confirms that, after three days of hearings involving over 100 witnesses, the Civil Rights Commission has yet to be presented with any evidence of intentional discrimination in the conduct of the November 7, 2000 election in Florida,\" said Gov. Bush in a statement.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/03/09/...orida.election/

Curiously, there are no newer stories on the web on this subject by CNN. Now, seriously, you know if anything became of voter disenfranchisement in Florida, CNN aka Clinton News Network would be screaming it at the top of the their lungs.

 

[Anoah]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

Heck no they wouldn't. If I was a newspaper editor I wouldnt dare. It may be true but they would have my job. Plus they covered their tracks.

 

[Unintentional]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

The offical Civil Rights Report of the Florida election came out 6-8-2001. The only thing I wonder about is the 100s of witnesses but not a single case of disenfranchised voters. THe report claims "countless unknowns" were disenfranchised but in three months could not produce one.

 

[Anoah]

minuteman project and Waco type events thread

surprise!

I suppose its okay if it kept Gore away. :lol: