People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Welcome to our community

Take a moment to sign up and join the discussion! It's simple and free.

Cornelia

Member
Messages
234
People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

I make a thread because this really amazed me: just hours after the end of polls, people on a forum are talking of civil war and seceding blue states from USA.
The talks are taking place on the peakoil forum, with smart and educate members of both sides. They know NOTHING about John Titor, they're mostly interested in economics and oil.
These are some of the posts, I'll add more while they write:

\"Face it: we are a country divided.
We should have both the NE and the West Coast secede from the union. Very different people with very different values than the South and parts of the midwest. Regardless who wins, why should a group of states have to be enslaved and commandeered by those who have values completely different than their own?
Why not allow a government that represents the will of the people in their particular states? If it can't do that, then those states should secede.\"

\"We are divided. I feel the USA (as we know it) won't be around much longer. I don't think Bush or Kerry matters much. It is the other \"perfect storm\" problems that will be the cause.\"

\"America is fucked. Flee America while you still can. Now is the time to get rid of your dollars if you havn't already. The Repubs control every branch of the government. Soon they will appoint Fascist judges. Our civil liberties will be taken away. I have posted here too much. I am not sure if it was a good idea.\"

\"Are you guys going to do the civil war thing again??\" (EU member)

\"This time we'd form an alliance with our fellow blue states on the Eastern seaboard.\" (Cali member)
 

CaryP

Senior Member
Messages
1,438
People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Thanks for the update Cornelia. Interesting how the same conversation is getting around from a lot of different perpspectives.

Yes, this election and the current administration have been very devisive for the country. I don't know what's going to happen, and hope that all is peacefully resolved. We still don't have a clear winner at 4:18am CST, and I've heard in news reports that a few of the states who don't have a final count, may take a few days to a week or so to get final counts for a winner to be declared. Looks like Bush is ahead, and could win the election. I'm dumbfounded by what the American people will vote for. The Republicans also picked up some seats in Congress and a Governor's election. Watch for the legal action to get into high gear today. This could get ugly quickly.

Cary
 

Timescholar

Junior Member
Messages
105
People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

In a forum chatroom (one I moderate), some -- in my state too! -- said there'll be (and I quote!) "civil unrest in the streets if the wrong canidate (Bush) wins". :/ This is at a gaming fansite.
 

August

Junior Member
Messages
146
People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Cornelia,

Excellent update. I volunteered 13 hours yesterday at my town hall--thanks to our foreign policy of the past four years. This experience has given me a lot of confidence in our Republic, but I am deep inside the blue territories so my perspective is probably a bit off.

If we can believe the popular vote, then I am a stranger in a strange land. I hope we do not have unrest in this great country, however. I guess that makes me an enemy of Titor, no?
 

Cornelia

Member
Messages
234
People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

From another thread on the same forum:
Looking at the geographical spread of the votes it appears that the big cities in the US are basically held hostage by rural conservative America.
A member also mentioned John Titor, but nobody paid attention.
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

I am no longer afraid of repeating myself on the forum. Here's what I wrote a couple of weeks ago:

If you read what people have written in these two forums over the past year, you will see that the overall opinion is that a violent social upheaval, such as a revolution or civil war, is not either longed for or encouraged. On the contrary, the general idea here seems to be that we should resist the illegal government acts nonviolently, protest, and disobey-- but, perhaps taking the cue from Titor himself, there has been no talk of getting guns and ammunition ready.

My own repeated beliefs involve passive resistance to what I consider an illegal government (no matter who is in power, at this point and since the 1960s); and I have tried to make it clear that there is an actual Constitutional way to overthrow the government peacefully. That last would take a lot of things that people are not usually willing to give: effort, thought, debate, and a vote by the conscience and reason.

I should think that a federal interest in us would quickly lose its purpose if the reason were to root out Che Guevaras. But that's not really the point, is it? The fear is that such an investigation might stand as proof of Titor's claims. That is, the government, as usual, knows more than we do, keeps it all a secret, and has truck with UFOs and the like. Titor, if an actual timetraveler, would have to be a government agent, or, what amounts to the same thing, a corporate soldier of some kind. I don't buy the postapocalyptic farmers-in-macrame scenario; that's just me. I've seen it in too many movies.

We need to stop being afraid of the truth. It won't hurt us, and keeping it from us hurts Them more. Let me explain what I mean.

Obviously many here would find themselves brothers in arms in a revolution against a corrupt, bought, oppressive government. That simple truth does not expose anyone to government investigation or prosecution without proving the underlying proposition that that government needs to be overthrown. Simply stating the fact becomes a revolutionary act-- of the type that Americans like, one that doesn't draw blood or threaten their credit ratings. It also leaves the question open as to whether this government, or the one coming in January, is corrupt, bought, and oppressive; and whether there is not another way to replace it besides at gunpoint.

Calling for the overthrow of the government is an act of the highest patriotism if that government has betrayed its democratic charter. To compel violence in order to overthrow it would be the final betrayal. We have the right to the nonviolent overthrow of these criminals, spooks, and fat cats. They don't have the right to retain power through succeeding administrations.

I have explained in another thread how the lawful revolt can occur; it is licensed by the Second Amendment, of all things, and would require both a Constitutional Amendment and a national referendum election. It may sound difficult and boring, and it is true that the field of glory has more material in it to write novels and make movies about later, but, just as my opinion doesn't constitute the truth, the law doesn't constitute art. Civil war and violent revolution means that the law has failed, has been vacated; war means that law and language have been abandoned.

But it will take, as I say, work and thought-- is anyone up to it?
 

Cosmo

Senior Member
Messages
2,865
People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Absolutely, Paul. Count me in. It's time we got off of our collective asses and did something instead of moaning and whining. I've disliked and distrusted Bush for a long time, and I was really trying to be optimistic about a change for the better last night.

I guess Kerry wouldn't have been a change for the better, but I feel that today's outcome is clearly a turn for the WORST. What can I do? I live in Canada as a temporary resident, and don't have much money ;) Sign me up though, I'll be the first to put my hat in the ring. There's a non-violent way to take back our country and I'm all for it.
 

CaryP

Senior Member
Messages
1,438
People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

Paul,

I've ante-up'ed before, and I'm doing it again, now. I'm in. What do we do?

Cary
 

Snow

Member
Messages
469
People talking of splitting USA (red-blue map)

If an American living in Canada can help, I am signing on the dotted line.

Snow stands ready for her orders.
 

Top