Debate Stephen Hawking makes it clear: There is no God

[ElementalDissonance]

Man I'm glad I missed this useless "debate." Yikes

I'm thinking about "hawking" a loogie on this one. And if I do it from high enough (read "far enough away that both viewpoints look exactly the same"), you can nickname me "Light-speed Loogie".

 

[titorite]

Are you being purposely obtuse, or just not understanding my point? I wasn't "hammering away at your beliefs", I was hammering away at your assertions that everyone has to follow your beliefs, and that because I don't believe in god I must automatically believe life is meaningless and futile.

"God is God regardless. Hate him or love him your gonna go back to him."

As for my "assumption" I'll let your own words speak for themselves.

"But all atheists have issues with God. Their way of dealing with it is to say their is no God. No miracles. That we all exist for no reason. That life itself is meaningless and futile in all forms."

Need I say more?

This here is the exemplar of the issues of atheists.

Did I insist you believe as I do? Nope. Did I say you hate life? Nope. Do you think their is God? I don't know but you sure are fond of attempting to define others peoples Beliefs and Understandings when you yourself have stated that you have no belief therefore no inclination to try and understand said nonbelief.

So what are you hammering away at? Imagined assertions. As an atheist you likely subscribe to the Idea that life has the meaning you give it. After all you do not believe their is any God to give life any meaning. Ergo the value of life , in that line of thinking, is arbitrary and ultimately meaningless. That is not to say that life isn't fun and that you don't enjoy living, But if there is no purpose to save whatever you make up for yourself ; then that is a fiat purpose. Without value or meaning in the end.

This is my belief and thinking. Does that bother you? Do you feel like arguing over it to prove something to me or yourself? Do you think My beliefs and thinking somehow infringe upon your own?

 

[ElementalDissonance]

*purses lips*

 

[Sam Slagg]

Man I'm glad I missed this useless "debate." Yikes

I'm thinking about "hawking" a loogie on this one. And if I do it from high enough (read "far enough away that both viewpoints look exactly the same"), you can nickname me "Light-speed Loogie".

 

[Sam Slagg]

*purses lips*

This is never a "debate" that ends well. Everyone is always so passionate.

 

[titorite]

Well , do you know that my god is your god is his god is all god?

God is God regardless. Hate him or love him your gonna go back to him. From God we came and to God we return. Hawkings Says their is no God. Indifference is a big snub. You say he doesn't hate God? ..... well... I disagree. He doesn't fear God thats for sure. He doesn't love God thats for sure. But all atheists have issues with God. Their way of dealing with it is to say their is no God. No miracles. That we all exist for no reason. That life itself is meaningless and futile in all forms. Consciousness is an accidental by product of random happenstance of nothingness that for no reason at all decided to be more than nothingness.

Atheists can say they don't hate what they don't believe in but ignoring someone to the point of pretending they don't exist can be a most sincere form of hatred.

Normally I don't bother responding to religious zealots like yourself, because like some atheists, you're a hypocrite.

I've been called worse by better but even though it can be true it is something I try to avoid being, hypocritical that is.

You talk your talk about God and how great he is, and then at the same time you hate upon what you hate. You hate people who talk bad about your God. Well I hate it when people talk bad about me because I don't believe in your God. Actually I don't really talk bad about anyone's God, unless provoked.

My apologies, I wasn't trying to provoke you but just respond to Ayasanos comments toward me.
I don't exactly hate it when people talk bad about God.. it's more pity that I feel. Pity and curiosity for the reasons behind it. I try my best to live without hate. Not easy considering I have an Ex-wife.

I've met some really downright nasty ass atheists, I've met some genuinely nice atheists (like the one above me) and then I've met some really nasty ass religious, but then I've met some genuinely nice religious (Like PaulaJedi) but if there is anyone who picks fights more, from my personal experience, its the nasty ass religious. Because you don't like people who have a different opinion or a different viewpoint. There's only one God in your eyes and any other Gods are false idols, and you hate upon people. Yet at the same time, you "claim" to spread the message of love and joy, but yet hate. Just like you hate upon homosexuals (not saying you do, but others in your religion do)

And their are atheists that hate homosexuals too... and you did specifically say I hate homosexuals. Thats not true. You also state that I don't like people with a different opinion or different view point. This is not true. I do think their is only one God. I think it is the God of all. The sum total all of everything. Reality is created of him, We are of him , in him, are a part of him given free will and life to experience it all. From God we came and to God we return. This is what I believe.

In the end you are just as much of a hypocrite as atheists are. Because here you are, hating upon people who believe differently than you. And the hatred isn't profane or vulgar, its just you saying "atheists are dumb and live meaningless lives because they don't believe in god"

I didn't say atheists are dumb. I said they have issues.

P.S. And in regards to your comment about God making me. Actually my mommy and daddy made me when they had sex many years ago. FYI.

P.P.S. I'm not an atheist btw, I used to be. But I've had personal experiences happen in recent years that have led me to believe there is something out there. I can't say its the flying spaghetti monster bringing love and joy, but there is something out there.

P.P.P.S Have you ever stopped to think that maybe people who live meaningless lives in your opinion are actually people who live life trying to find meaning to it? There are cases such as mine where a hardcore Atheist spends much of his life not believing only to have several divine intervention moments happen in his life, that causes him to believe that there may be something out there.

So its possible that a meaningless life liver is actually living a meaningful life, trying to find his path into believing in God. Bet you didn't think of that one, did ya.

Yes I kinda figure your parents had sex, where did your soul come from? Where did the first cellular life come from when it was just inorganic ooze? Where did the Big Bang of creation come from? Why did nothingness decide to be something?

You have a belief in something... Seek and you shall find as the saying goes.

And yes that stuff did occur to me... God seems rather fond of the wayward sheep.

So we don't live meaningless lives. We go through life trying to find our own meaning. Some choose to believe, some don't. There's no problem with that. There's no law against not believing, and I hate it when someone like you acts like there is. Well if there is, please show me it. And it better not be the bible, or I'm going to slap you into the stone ages. Because the bible or quran or any other religious text is like trying to prove that a piece of dust is proof of ghosts.

Those religious texts were written by MAN not GOD.

You have said that I hate alot in your words above then describe how you hate how I act. Even threaten to slap me into the stone ages despite the fact that we both know that to be a physical impossibility through this medium of communication.

SO

Why take offense? Offense is a heavy burden and my beliefs and actions online here on this forum only carry the merit of whatever you decide to assign it. Why assign anger and contempt?

How can you understand my point of view when you have already made up your mind about what My point of view is?

 

[Sam Slagg]

Well , do you know that my god is your god is his god is all god?

God is God regardless. Hate him or love him your gonna go back to him. From God we came and to God we return. Hawkings Says their is no God. Indifference is a big snub. You say he doesn't hate God? ..... well... I disagree. He doesn't fear God thats for sure. He doesn't love God thats for sure. But all atheists have issues with God. Their way of dealing with it is to say their is no God. No miracles. That we all exist for no reason. That life itself is meaningless and futile in all forms. Consciousness is an accidental by product of random happenstance of nothingness that for no reason at all decided to be more than nothingness.

Atheists can say they don't hate what they don't believe in but ignoring someone to the point of pretending they don't exist can be a most sincere form of hatred.

Normally I don't bother responding to religious zealots like yourself, because like some atheists, you're a hypocrite.

I've been called worse by better but even though it can be true it is something I try to avoid being, hypocritical that is.

You talk your talk about God and how great he is, and then at the same time you hate upon what you hate. You hate people who talk bad about your God. Well I hate it when people talk bad about me because I don't believe in your God. Actually I don't really talk bad about anyone's God, unless provoked.

My apologies, I wasn't trying to provoke you but just respond to Ayasanos comments toward me.
I don't exactly hate it when people talk bad about God.. it's more pity that I feel. Pity and curiosity for the reasons behind it. I try my best to live without hate. Not easy considering I have an Ex-wife.

I've met some really downright nasty ass atheists, I've met some genuinely nice atheists (like the one above me) and then I've met some really nasty ass religious, but then I've met some genuinely nice religious (Like PaulaJedi) but if there is anyone who picks fights more, from my personal experience, its the nasty ass religious. Because you don't like people who have a different opinion or a different viewpoint. There's only one God in your eyes and any other Gods are false idols, and you hate upon people. Yet at the same time, you "claim" to spread the message of love and joy, but yet hate. Just like you hate upon homosexuals (not saying you do, but others in your religion do)

And their are atheists that hate homosexuals too... and you did specifically say I hate homosexuals. Thats not true. You also state that I don't like people with a different opinion or different view point. This is not true. I do think their is only one God. I think it is the God of all. The sum total all of everything. Reality is created of him, We are of him , in him, are a part of him given free will and life to experience it all. From God we came and to God we return. This is what I believe.

In the end you are just as much of a hypocrite as atheists are. Because here you are, hating upon people who believe differently than you. And the hatred isn't profane or vulgar, its just you saying "atheists are dumb and live meaningless lives because they don't believe in god"

I didn't say atheists are dumb. I said they have issues.

P.S. And in regards to your comment about God making me. Actually my mommy and daddy made me when they had sex many years ago. FYI.

P.P.S. I'm not an atheist btw, I used to be. But I've had personal experiences happen in recent years that have led me to believe there is something out there. I can't say its the flying spaghetti monster bringing love and joy, but there is something out there.

P.P.P.S Have you ever stopped to think that maybe people who live meaningless lives in your opinion are actually people who live life trying to find meaning to it? There are cases such as mine where a hardcore Atheist spends much of his life not believing only to have several divine intervention moments happen in his life, that causes him to believe that there may be something out there.

So its possible that a meaningless life liver is actually living a meaningful life, trying to find his path into believing in God. Bet you didn't think of that one, did ya.

Yes I kinda figure your parents had sex, where did your soul come from? Where did the first cellular life come from when it was just inorganic ooze? Where did the Big Bang of creation come from? Why did nothingness decide to be something?

You have a belief in something... Seek and you shall find as the saying goes.

And yes that stuff did occur to me... God seems rather fond of the wayward sheep.

So we don't live meaningless lives. We go through life trying to find our own meaning. Some choose to believe, some don't. There's no problem with that. There's no law against not believing, and I hate it when someone like you acts like there is. Well if there is, please show me it. And it better not be the bible, or I'm going to slap you into the stone ages. Because the bible or quran or any other religious text is like trying to prove that a piece of dust is proof of ghosts.

Those religious texts were written by MAN not GOD.

You have said that I hate alot in your words above then describe how you hate how I act. Even threaten to slap me into the stone ages despite the fact that we both know that to be a physical impossibility through this medium of communication.

SO

Why take offense? Offense is a heavy burden and my beliefs and actions online here on this forum only carry the merit of whatever you decide to assign it. Why assign anger and contempt?

How can you understand my point of view when you have already made up your mind about what My point of view is?

o_0 Ummmmmmm.....wow comes to mind. I have to mosey now before I get locked out again....Good luck on this folks.....

Now my lips are pursed

 

[Ayasano]

And I think this is where I bow out of this discussion. When your debate partner starts to twist your own words and outright lie about and ignore what they themselves said, it's time to accept that they aren't open to discussion any more. And he has the gall to say the atheist is the problem.

I'm thinking about "hawking" a loogie on this one.

That pun was terrible and you should feel terrible.

 

[Rosco..Jones]

Well, this debate has brought in many passionate responses, eh? Setting aside God for a moment, I have experienced many things in my life that I consider evidence of consciousness existing after our physical lives have ended. Does this constitute proof of "God"? I don't think that it does, but it does expand the concept of what our individual experience is now and will be in our futures. Death is just a changing of the framework our consciousness functions within. "Life" or our existence is eternal, but there is not a God as such that makes judgement upon us. Our reason for being is for the experiences and learnings we each have.

There is one point I am not clear on. I am hoping to hear from those leaning towards the atheist/no God perspective. My question is, "Even if there are no Gods, do you believe in the possibility of life after death or a non-physical/spiritual side to reality?"

 

[Ayasano]

There is one point I am not clear on. I am hoping to hear from those leaning towards the atheist/no God perspective. My question is, "Even if there are no Gods, do you believe in the possibility of life after death or a non-physical/spiritual side to reality?"

While I don't believe in a soul or afterlife per-se, there is one thing I've always wondered about. Since my belief is that consciousness arises from the brain, what happens if you take apart my constituent atoms and reassemble them somewhere else in exactly the same pattern? I think the reassembled atoms would remember being me, but would I personally experience a continuous existence before and after, like going to sleep and waking up? What happens if you copy/paste instead of cut/paste? Would I experience being in two places at once, or have a random chance of ending up in either copy? What about if you replicate the pattern in silicon instead of meat? I'm sure it'll be quite a while until we have definite answers to these questions, unfortunately.

That line of thinking also leads to another fascinating question. Am I the same person from moment to moment? If consciousness and memory arises from a particular arrangement of neurons and the chemical signals they transmit, will the me that exists in this instant exist in the next? Or will it be a new me that simply has the memories of old me? Have billions of me's come into existence, experienced an instant and then vanished into the ether while I was writing this post? Does it really matter, since I don't appear to notice the process? (Beyond a bit of introspective metacognition, anyway)