Peregrini
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And yet again you prove my point.
What Evidence Would You Need for a Time Travel Claim?
- Thread starter temporal recon
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And yet again you prove my point.
Peregrini
Member
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You're welcome to "assume" anything you want. If you read the post you would "know" what I said.
Einstein
Temporal Engineer
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I'm surprised that you haven't come across the holes in the Titor story. You must be new to the story. It's over 12 years old now. The physics falls flat on its face. Black holes are still just a mathematical theory. Out of all those stars in the sky, and not one black hole can be confirmed yet. But don't believe me. Go do your own search online. Lots of black hole believers out there. But no black holes have been found yet. So the fact is a black hole is a belief, not a fact. The next thing on the list. The laser pointer picture is not possible. Right now I'll do the math and let you see for yourself. That laser beam appears to be bent by around 90 degrees. Our own sun has a gravity field strength of close to 30 gees near the surface. It can bend the path of a light beam. But only by 1.7 degrees. So if I divide 90 degrees by 1.7 degrees, I see that the gravity field present in Titor's corvette would have to be approximately 52.9 times that which is on the surface of the sun to bend a light beam 90 degrees. 52.9 x 30 gees = 1587 gees . I just weighed a laser pointer. 2.6 ounces. So multiply 2.6 x 1587 = 4126.2 ounces or approximately 258 pounds. That's a pretty heavy laser pointer. Do you think you could pick up a 258 pound laser pointer with one hand? Oh, I forgot to mention that a man that normally weighs 180 pounds would weigh 142.8 tons in Titor's corvette. But it doesn't look like the guy in the photo is having any weight issues at all. And then we get to how Titor says initially when the time machine was first invented. It was set to turn on and off briefly. I'm not sure now, but I believe he said it was set to travel to a very short time into the future. The time machine disappeared, but didn't reappear. They eventually found out that the time machine was reappearing but that the earth had moved, so that the time machine was located some distance away from from the departure point. Then he goes on the describe VGL which stands for Variable Gravity lock system. It supposedly holds the time machine to the earth when in operation, thus preventing it from flying off into space. So let's go check that out compared to known physical laws. There was a famous experiment performed in 1887 called the Michelson-Morley experiment. They devised a way to measure motion through the ether. Or if we actually are moving through space. The experiment kept coming up with a null result. What the results of the experiment were saying is that the earth was sitting still in space. No one at the time was really willing to believe the results of the experiment. But the experiment was repeated over and over. There was no doubt. The results were true. It laid the foundation for Relativity. In present day understanding we have come to accept that the earth is actually dragging a chunk of space with it as it rotates around the sun. So in reality we are in the same space as we were six months ago on the other side of the sun. So it does appear that Titor didn't actually know about the Michelson-Morley experiment. Here's a link to the Michelson-Morley experiment for those that wish to be more enlightened.
Michelson–Morley experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So I pretty much treat the Titor story as just a story. But there are many events in my life that do suggest I could build a time machine in my future. Here's one such event:
I'm an auto mechanic. I was coming home from work one day during my lunch hour. Along the way from my car to my apartment I see the building manager out working. Her name is Nikki. She looks up at me and says, "How did you get changed so fast?" I said, "What do you mean?" She said,"I just seen you leave your apartment 5 minutes ago in shorts and a T-shirt on your bicycle." I said, "It couldn't have been me, I've been at work all morning. You didn't let him in did you?" Her reaction to that was one that I will never forget, her jaw dropped and her face got white as a ghost. Well, I just brushed it off. Although my bicycle was gone. I just figured my daughter borrowed it. I just shelved that memory never even suspecting at the time what was going on.
Think about it. How many people could successfully pull off a stunt like that?
kcwildman
Beastmaster
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aahhhh yeh thats about what I am saying exactly.... but hey 300 yrs ago we had no airplanes . then came the Wright Brothers and poof we are flying all over this mudball. so untill some guy makes a working Tardis only Dr.Who will be doing any T.T.
Opmmur
Time Travel Professor
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Einstein, if it makes you feel any better, I've also had the same experience happened on a few occasions. I guess you would call it, someone seeing your doppelgänger.
temporal recon
Member
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No, there are holes in the story. They just don't represent what you think they do.
In a manner of speaking. As I've said before, much of the evidence that exists now did not exist until the last 5 years or even later. Believing that the Titor posts were 100% false written by some genius hoaxer might be excused 12 years ago, but holding on to that idea in the face of current evidence seems a bit stubborn to me.
For argument's sake and in the interest of time travel evidence in general, does that preclude the future discovery of black holes (rotating or otherwise)? If BH's were discovered to exist at some point in the future, this means they have always existed, even during the times you denied their existence.
Incidentally, black holes, by definition are unobservable by direct observation. I'm sure you understand the reasons. This forces scientists to look for the characteristics of a black hole affecting their neighborhood.
For Mr. Peregrini's benefit, this is another example of circumstantial evidence.
See above.
Again, I can appreciate why you might say this, but it is important to remember that a "black hole" is merely a region/point in space where gravity is (for lack of a better word) 'concentrated.' The effect of this "concentration" of gravity is the distortion and frame - dragging (in the case of rotating BH's) of spacetime itself (which leads to timelike loops) as well as effects on other massive bodies in its vicinity.
You'll never guess who coined the term, by the way. Damn interesting and a funny little coincidence (I wonder...).
All in all, I would have to guess the confusion for the layman when it comes to understanding black holes probably stems from their misnomer. A black hole is nothing more than
What is important to take away from this general definition is that a "black hole" is not a hole in space but simply rather a super massive body whose gravity affects its surroundings and is so massive that light does not escape from it thus rendering it "dark." The effects it causes are observable and caused by this gravitic point source.
Impressive work, Einstein.
Are you saying it takes the sun's entire mass to create the lensing effect you describe above?
A good point of research for those out there who are interested:
How much gravity is required to bend light?
An interesting intersection in this train of thought was demonstrated by Dr. Mallet in his experiments to attempt to distort gravity: he used photons to distort gravity. He, incredibly was able to distort gravity with light alone. I highly recommend his book.
What is even MORE INTERESTING is that Dr Mallet used two light sources for his experiment. I wonder who gave him the idea that TWO point sources of gravity (to distort space) would work better in his endeavour to create a time machine?
Some interesting points Titor brought up which I believe he was being truthful about:
the photograph you describe was taken with the C204 set at low power.
At full power, the driver will experience approximately 2G's
The weight of the unit is approx 500 lbs.
Far be it from me to argue the results of a scientific experiment that was conducted before the Wright Brothers' flew at Kitty Hawk testing for movement through a non-existent "ether."That notwithstanding, the VGL doesn't necessarily cause the distortion engine to "stick" to the Earth, per se, but its affect is the same.
Now that is an interesting story. I would wager there might be other, just as esoteric, explanations. I have a very close friend who had the same experience. Makes you wonder, no?
All in all, Einstein, I am very impressed with your deconstruction of the story. While you come to incorrect conclusions, your ideas are obviously well thought-out and presented. I might recommend availing yourself to the latest information. Why? Because you do not appear to be someone who screams "HOAX" and then goes in search of any shred of incongruity to bolster your claim. You have obviously done your homework and I can respect that.
Einstein
Temporal Engineer
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- 5,440
Have you investigated the possibility that you may have acquired access to a time machine in your future? Or maybe independently developed and built a time machine?
You see I've investigated my doppelganger. He was interacting with my wife there for a while. I have specific detailed memories of conversations with my wife about this other person that she admitted looked just like me. There was mention of a time machine. At the time I didn't believe a word of it. But I remember asking about the time machine. She actually saw it. Said it was pretty close in size to cigar box, but a little bit bigger. I even remember asking her if she slept with him. Her response was "But it was you." Well, I can say I didn't know how to respond to that answer. I do believe that at the time, I just figured she found a new way to mess with my head. Not that she ever did anything like that before. None of what was going on around me at that particular time in my life did I even consider could possibly be real.
So I'm curious. Do you have any recollections of your doppelganger that you would like to share?
Einstein
Temporal Engineer
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temporal recon
All the conclusions were derived from the presented facts. But I'm not going to incessantly ague against your beliefs. You see I don't believe that you need miniature black holes to produce gravity fields. Not when I actually discovered a real method to produce gravity like fields in a laboratory setting. I'll take facts over a belief any day of the week. Here, check out my gravity field generator:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/7/30/148042/MOV00002.MPG
All the conclusions were derived from the presented facts. But I'm not going to incessantly ague against your beliefs. You see I don't believe that you need miniature black holes to produce gravity fields. Not when I actually discovered a real method to produce gravity like fields in a laboratory setting. I'll take facts over a belief any day of the week. Here, check out my gravity field generator:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/7/30/148042/MOV00002.MPG
Opmmur
Time Travel Professor
- Messages
- 5,049
BOB LAZAR’S GRAVITY GENERATOR
The Link to the whole information site: BOB LAZAR’S GRAVITY GENERATOR
by Paul E. Potter
Bob Lazar worked at Area 51 (or Groom Lake) back in the late 1980’s on a back-engineering program that he claims began there in 1979. He says that an ‘exchange’ program with the ETs occurred in the 1970’s, which, resulted in the acquisition of nine UFOs so that their technologies could be researched. That there were indeed strange craft at Area 51 seems to be corroborated by David Adair’s visit there in 1971.
The following is an analysis of the way some types of UFOs travel, its the rubber sheet explanation of space-time manipulation by Bob Lazar.1
“Assuming they‘re in space, they will focus the three gravity generators on the point they want to go to. Now, to give an analogy: If you take a thin rubber sheet, say, lay it on a table and put thumbtacks in each corner, then take a big stone and set it on one end of the rubber sheet and say that’s your spacecraft, you pick out a point that you want to go to - which could be anywhere on the rubber sheet - pinch that point with your fingers andpull it all the way up to the craft. That’s how it focuses and pulls that point to it. When you then shut off the gravity generators, the stone (or spacecraft) follows that stretched rubber back to its point. There’s no linear travel through space; it actually bends space and time and follows space as it retracts. In the first mode of travel - around the surface of a planet - they essentially balance on the gravitational field that the gravity generators put out, and they can ride a “wave,” like a cork does in the ocean. In that mode they’re very unstable and are affected by the weather. In the other mode of travel - where they can travel vast distances - they can’t really do that in a strong gravitational field like Earth, because to do that, first of all, they need to tilt on their side, usually out in space, then they can focus on the point they need to with the gravity generators and move on. If you can picture space as a fabric, and the speed of light is your limit, it’ll take you so long, even at the speed of light, to get from point A to point B. You can’t exceed it - not in this universe anyway. Should there be other parallel universes, maybe the laws are different, but anyone that’s here has to abide by those rules.”
Interestingly, recent research into Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC) has found that by slowing down a body of atoms, to within a fraction of a degree Kelvin (near absolute zero), they coalesce into a “superatom” and when suitably excited by an oscillating field this BEC superatom propagates matter waves, now - its only at an early stage of development here on Earth but it is hoped that one day this technology will produce a tightlyfocused “matter wave beam” (much like that of the laser light beam) - what is so interesting here, is that if you look at the diagram above of the gravity generators of Lazar’s, its elements look exactly like the rings of optical lasers and magnetic traps used in BEC technology to slow down the atoms, and that these generators emit a beam - one of which is enough for the craft to ride upon - it could mean that the ETs use a system closely related to the propagation of such matter waves. Well, its food for thought.
“Inside the reactor, Element 115 is bombarded with a proton which plugs into the nucleus of the 115 atom and becomes Element 116, which immediately decays and releases, or radiates, small amounts of antimatter. The antimatter is released into a tuned tube which keeps it from reacting with the matter that surrounds it. It is then directed toward a gaseous matter target at the end of the tube. The matter and antimatter collide and annihilate, totally converting to energy. The heat from this reaction is converted into electrical energy in a near 100% efficient thermoelectric generator...”1
“Element 115 is a superheavy element found probably on a planet of a binary star system. Supposedly the craft uses 223 grams, cut to a triangular shape, within the reactor structure (in a cloud chamber it was shown to alter, by gravitational forces, the paths of released alpha particles).
The Link to the whole information site: BOB LAZAR’S GRAVITY GENERATOR
by Paul E. Potter
Bob Lazar worked at Area 51 (or Groom Lake) back in the late 1980’s on a back-engineering program that he claims began there in 1979. He says that an ‘exchange’ program with the ETs occurred in the 1970’s, which, resulted in the acquisition of nine UFOs so that their technologies could be researched. That there were indeed strange craft at Area 51 seems to be corroborated by David Adair’s visit there in 1971.
The following is an analysis of the way some types of UFOs travel, its the rubber sheet explanation of space-time manipulation by Bob Lazar.1
“Assuming they‘re in space, they will focus the three gravity generators on the point they want to go to. Now, to give an analogy: If you take a thin rubber sheet, say, lay it on a table and put thumbtacks in each corner, then take a big stone and set it on one end of the rubber sheet and say that’s your spacecraft, you pick out a point that you want to go to - which could be anywhere on the rubber sheet - pinch that point with your fingers andpull it all the way up to the craft. That’s how it focuses and pulls that point to it. When you then shut off the gravity generators, the stone (or spacecraft) follows that stretched rubber back to its point. There’s no linear travel through space; it actually bends space and time and follows space as it retracts. In the first mode of travel - around the surface of a planet - they essentially balance on the gravitational field that the gravity generators put out, and they can ride a “wave,” like a cork does in the ocean. In that mode they’re very unstable and are affected by the weather. In the other mode of travel - where they can travel vast distances - they can’t really do that in a strong gravitational field like Earth, because to do that, first of all, they need to tilt on their side, usually out in space, then they can focus on the point they need to with the gravity generators and move on. If you can picture space as a fabric, and the speed of light is your limit, it’ll take you so long, even at the speed of light, to get from point A to point B. You can’t exceed it - not in this universe anyway. Should there be other parallel universes, maybe the laws are different, but anyone that’s here has to abide by those rules.”
Interestingly, recent research into Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC) has found that by slowing down a body of atoms, to within a fraction of a degree Kelvin (near absolute zero), they coalesce into a “superatom” and when suitably excited by an oscillating field this BEC superatom propagates matter waves, now - its only at an early stage of development here on Earth but it is hoped that one day this technology will produce a tightlyfocused “matter wave beam” (much like that of the laser light beam) - what is so interesting here, is that if you look at the diagram above of the gravity generators of Lazar’s, its elements look exactly like the rings of optical lasers and magnetic traps used in BEC technology to slow down the atoms, and that these generators emit a beam - one of which is enough for the craft to ride upon - it could mean that the ETs use a system closely related to the propagation of such matter waves. Well, its food for thought.
“Inside the reactor, Element 115 is bombarded with a proton which plugs into the nucleus of the 115 atom and becomes Element 116, which immediately decays and releases, or radiates, small amounts of antimatter. The antimatter is released into a tuned tube which keeps it from reacting with the matter that surrounds it. It is then directed toward a gaseous matter target at the end of the tube. The matter and antimatter collide and annihilate, totally converting to energy. The heat from this reaction is converted into electrical energy in a near 100% efficient thermoelectric generator...”1
“Element 115 is a superheavy element found probably on a planet of a binary star system. Supposedly the craft uses 223 grams, cut to a triangular shape, within the reactor structure (in a cloud chamber it was shown to alter, by gravitational forces, the paths of released alpha particles).
temporal recon
Member
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@Einstein
I would recommend speaking to Dr. Mallet.
I would recommend speaking to Dr. Mallet.