Help building a divergence meter?

[paradox404]

It's all javascript/html/images with no compression. So it's very easy to access the source.









Alright, I'll try this again. Despite there being photographs of, and links to, the software.

Here's a complete photo of the webpage as viewed by my browser (firefox nightly w/ css modifications)

View attachment 7312
Dragging the sidebar open has an option to "OPEN SITE DIRECTORY". Alternatively you can just view the source in your browser, if it supports that feature (right click -> view source)

View attachment 7313

That link will reveal this folder, which are all the files.

View attachment 7314

For convenience, I have also uploaded the source in a zip file (extract using winzip/winrar/whatever you use to extract zips). That's attached to this post and should reveal exactly the same files in the screenshot above. Hopefully that's easy enough access? The links to the webpage and the software to properly view it are provided in the opening post (run zeronet, then visit the link of my page).



Which part was unclear? If you look at the source you'll see that it does exactly what I wrote. I take hashes of various files that contain content of observed changes. It then runs an md5 hash on them, and constructs the value you see. Please specify where you're having issues.




Whether you believe me or not is honestly irrelevant. As there's not like there's anything I can show you to prove it, and there's no benefit for me to demonstrate it to you. There's a reason I haven't posted one of those silly "I'm a time traveler" posts. And as my provided source code proves, I did indeed build a divergence meter. Albeit one that doesn't work that well (hence this post). It's a shame that this has devolved to discussing very simple ideas related to time travel, rather than discussing the actual design of a divergence meter. I guess I set my expectations too high for this forum. Such a shame.

You keep using that phrasing "access the timelines" and I still have no idea what you mean, sorry. I explained how my meter works several times now. It's very simple in it's design.





I use ZeroNet for a few reasons, all unrelated to time travel and time navigation devices. It's a network that does not rely on many censored and centralized aspects of the internet. And allows those even who are censored to be able to see my page. Likewise, hosting is entirely free so I do not need to rely on money to host a page. I apologize for the inconvenience. I have provided the source here as well.




You get that error because you are not running ZeroNet. The link I posted was to access a site hosted on that network. I have provided pictures as well as the source code itself.


Lastly: I'm a she/her. And ZeroNet is entirely safe. Do not fear. I run it 24/7 on my own machine. It's arguably safer than the medium we're using now.

I'll have a look at it when I get the chance.

You said it was coded in Javascript? That's probably why you'd be having issues with it. Javascript isn't actually designed to run entire programs like that. Javascript is more useful at editing the Document Object Model. You're better off writing your program in another language and using a patch through using php. (Maybe such a patch through could be created using a database?)

Anyway you're better off trying Java or C++/C#. You can do a lot more with them and it's locally run.

 

[paradox404]

I had a look and vaguely understand what it's doing. I would say that is definitely not the way to write a divergence meter. You're using static numbers that are handwritten into a web page. You're going to need to rewrite your entire program tbh. To do what you've been telling us you want it to do you're going to need your string to be generated by a random number generator and read by the program, perhaps from a separate file. Why? Divergence. Only issue however is that two identical worldlines could be read as completely different. You're also going to need external sensors to assist with that. Take a local reading and account for that in your numbers somehow.

I would consider a divergence meter one of the most complicated programs that could ever be written. I don't mean to be blunt but the fact that you're trying to write this into a web page shows you don't understand what you're doing as you don't understand programing at all.

 

[Mayhem]

I had a look and vaguely understand what it's doing. I would say that is definitely not the way to write a divergence meter. You're using static numbers that are handwritten into a web page. You're going to need to rewrite your entire program tbh. To do what you've been telling us you want it to do you're going to need your string to be generated by a random number generator and read by the program, perhaps from a separate file. Why? Divergence. Only issue however is that two identical worldlines could be read as completely different. You're also going to need external sensors to assist with that. Take a local reading and account for that in your numbers somehow.

I would consider a divergence meter one of the most complicated programs that could ever be written. I don't mean to be blunt but the fact that you're trying to write this into a web page shows you don't understand what you're doing as you don't understand programing at all.

 

[Apri1]

I'll have a look at it when I get the chance.

You said it was coded in Javascript? That's probably why you'd be having issues with it. Javascript isn't actually designed to run entire programs like that. Javascript is more useful at editing the Document Object Model. You're better off writing your program in another language and using a patch through using php. (Maybe such a patch through could be created using a database?)

Anyway you're better off trying Java or C++/C#. You can do a lot more with them and it's locally run.

I'm honestly laughing my ass off at this. You're talking down to me like I don't know what I'm doing, and it's clear you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. My JS is just hashing some files. It's more than suitable, and pretty much any language would be able to do it fine. The actual execution of my code has no issue. There's no performance issues, no bugs, etc. It does as I wrote it to do.

PHP is worse, doesn't fit the parameters for my project, and ultimately is pointless. If I was going to do something outside of a browser, I'd just write it in python like the rest of my stuff. Java is garbage. I hate that awful language. And C++/C# are pretty overkill for a small project like this.

I had a look and vaguely understand what it's doing. I would say that is definitely not the way to write a divergence meter. You're using static numbers that are handwritten into a web page. You're going to need to rewrite your entire program tbh. To do what you've been telling us you want it to do you're going to need your string to be generated by a random number generator and read by the program, perhaps from a separate file. Why? Divergence. Only issue however is that two identical worldlines could be read as completely different. You're also going to need external sensors to assist with that. Take a local reading and account for that in your numbers somehow.

I would consider a divergence meter one of the most complicated programs that could ever be written. I don't mean to be blunt but the fact that you're trying to write this into a web page shows you don't understand what you're doing as you don't understand programing at all.

Ummm no. That's not what I'm doing. I explained what my meter does many times now, and it should be evident from the code. The files should be static, as that's the entire point. If they remained the same while the actual thing changed, I'd pretty much have proof that it differed.

A random number generator won't work. The ones in computers are actually pseudo-rngs, and need a seed and particular formula to work. These would be identical in every timeline. Alternatively it'd be random every time I ran the program. Both fail. An RNG is indeed one suggestion I got recently, which I'm curious to try. Why would an external sensor of any kind be required?

You say I don't understand programming, yet you have not only failed to understand my methodology, you failed to understand the code, and you fail to understand the differences between languages. This is the field I work in. I know how computers work, thanks.

 

[paradox404]

I'm honestly laughing my ass off at this. You're talking down to me like I don't know what I'm doing, and it's clear you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. My JS is just hashing some files. It's more than suitable, and pretty much any language would be able to do it fine. The actual execution of my code has no issue. There's no performance issues, no bugs, etc. It does as I wrote it to do.

PHP is worse, doesn't fit the parameters for my project, and ultimately is pointless. If I was going to do something outside of a browser, I'd just write it in python like the rest of my stuff. Java is garbage. I hate that awful language. And C++/C# are pretty overkill for a small project like this.




Ummm no. That's not what I'm doing. I explained what my meter does many times now, and it should be evident from the code. The files should be static, as that's the entire point. If they remained the same while the actual thing changed, I'd pretty much have proof that it differed.

A random number generator won't work. The ones in computers are actually pseudo-rngs, and need a seed and particular formula to work. These would be identical in every timeline. Alternatively it'd be random every time I ran the program. Both fail. An RNG is indeed one suggestion I got recently, which I'm curious to try. Why would an external sensor of any kind be required?

You say I don't understand programming, yet you have not only failed to understand my methodology, you failed to understand the code, and you fail to understand the differences between languages. This is the field I work in. I know how computers work, thanks.

Yea I never actually said the program was exhibiting bugs. It's doing exactly what you told it to do. I said what you need to get it to do what you want is completely different.

My suggestion of using a RNG was that you run it once, and writing it to a file. If I recall at least some use the time to assist in the calculations. Anyway the idea is that in your initial generation of the numbers you bounce the numbers through a series of calculations which are randomly selected through the random generator. What this does is create a number of opportunities of the calculations in alternate timelines to be different. The more calculations you force the computer to make the better the better. I'd say you need a minimum string size of AT LEAST one million. Maybe a dozen or two would do for the number bouncing operations.

I already explained why you need external sensors. It is to compensate for the nature of the RNG's spitting out different numbers on near identical worldlines. After all a timeline where you forget to take the rubbish out once shouldn't recieve a high divergence should it? Maybe you'd need a weighting algorithm for this?

 

[Apri1]

Yea I never actually said the program was exhibiting bugs. It's doing exactly what you told it to do. I said what you need to get it to do what you want is completely different.

My suggestion of using a RNG was that you run it once, and writing it to a file. If I recall at least some use the time to assist in the calculations. Anyway the idea is that in your initial generation of the numbers you bounce the numbers through a series of calculations which are randomly selected through the random generator. What this does is create a number of opportunities of the calculations in alternate timelines to be different. The more calculations you force the computer to make the better the better. I'd say you need a minimum string size of AT LEAST one million. Maybe a dozen or two would do for the number bouncing operations.

You need to brush up on your computer science. And also physics for that matter. On the CS side of things, we don't actually have true random number generators. They're all pseudo. As a result, it'll end up with the same result in each timeline (same seed+same algorithm+same number of iterations=same result). This is a well known exploit for games (RNG abuse). Any RNG would have to be strictly physical, and have something that can differ based on quantum results. Using physical motions or something is alright (such as a deck of cards or dice), but that still creates a lot of overlap.

I already explained why you need external sensors. It is to compensate for the nature of the RNG's spitting out different numbers on near identical worldlines. After all a timeline where you forget to take the rubbish out once shouldn't recieve a high divergence should it? Maybe you'd need a weighting algorithm for this?

Well an RNG wouldn't really generate a relative divergence. Given that divergence refers to how far apart one timeline is from another. So generating values like my first test, or how an RNG would do things, doesn't really give you a distance/divergence, but would satisfy labeling timelines and properly distinguishing them.

 

[paradox404]

You need to brush up on your computer science. And also physics for that matter. On the CS side of things, we don't actually have true random number generators. They're all pseudo. As a result, it'll end up with the same result in each timeline (same seed+same algorithm+same number of iterations=same result). This is a well known exploit for games (RNG abuse). Any RNG would have to be strictly physical, and have something that can differ based on quantum results. Using physical motions or something is alright (such as a deck of cards or dice), but that still creates a lot of overlap.



Well an RNG wouldn't really generate a relative divergence. Given that divergence refers to how far apart one timeline is from another. So generating values like my first test, or how an RNG would do things, doesn't really give you a distance/divergence, but would satisfy labeling timelines and properly distinguishing them.

So you admit that there isn't any technology capable of making the meter?

I am perfectly aware that RNG aren't perfect. I understand that rely on those fixed variables. If you read what I wrote I actually suggestions of a workaround for that.

I am painfully aware that such a meter is incredibly difficult to make. I am offering you suggestions and your dismissing them without even understanding what I'm saying.

In regards to the Bounced Multi-Calculated RNG suggestion it's guaranteed at least one timeline will have the same output but it's guaranteed using basically every single method you try.

Anyway, if you seem to know everything about making the meter, why the hell did you come here and ask us how to make them?

Also, my design idea is still more advanced than yours, and has functionality for being able measure the difference in a different worldlines.

 

[TimeFlipper]

It's all javascript/html/images with no compression. So it's very easy to access the source.









Alright, I'll try this again. Despite there being photographs of, and links to, the software.

Here's a complete photo of the webpage as viewed by my browser (firefox nightly w/ css modifications)

View attachment 7312
Dragging the sidebar open has an option to "OPEN SITE DIRECTORY". Alternatively you can just view the source in your browser, if it supports that feature (right click -> view source)

View attachment 7313

That link will reveal this folder, which are all the files.

View attachment 7314

For convenience, I have also uploaded the source in a zip file (extract using winzip/winrar/whatever you use to extract zips). That's attached to this post and should reveal exactly the same files in the screenshot above. Hopefully that's easy enough access? The links to the webpage and the software to properly view it are provided in the opening post (run zeronet, then visit the link of my page).



Which part was unclear? If you look at the source you'll see that it does exactly what I wrote. I take hashes of various files that contain content of observed changes. It then runs an md5 hash on them, and constructs the value you see. Please specify where you're having issues.




Whether you believe me or not is honestly irrelevant. As there's not like there's anything I can show you to prove it, and there's no benefit for me to demonstrate it to you. There's a reason I haven't posted one of those silly "I'm a time traveler" posts. And as my provided source code proves, I did indeed build a divergence meter. Albeit one that doesn't work that well (hence this post). It's a shame that this has devolved to discussing very simple ideas related to time travel, rather than discussing the actual design of a divergence meter. I guess I set my expectations too high for this forum. Such a shame.

You keep using that phrasing "access the timelines" and I still have no idea what you mean, sorry. I explained how my meter works several times now. It's very simple in it's design.





I use ZeroNet for a few reasons, all unrelated to time travel and time navigation devices. It's a network that does not rely on many censored and centralized aspects of the internet. And allows those even who are censored to be able to see my page. Likewise, hosting is entirely free so I do not need to rely on money to host a page. I apologize for the inconvenience. I have provided the source here as well.




You get that error because you are not running ZeroNet. The link I posted was to access a site hosted on that network. I have provided pictures as well as the source code itself.


Lastly: I'm a she/her. And ZeroNet is entirely safe. Do not fear. I run it 24/7 on my own machine. It's arguably safer than the medium we're using now.

Your last attachment displays nothing, would you kindly please send me the picture of your own Divergence Meter, along with the electronics that you have built into it plus the theoretical perspective, as i requested previously....DOES ANY OTHER MEMBER HAVE A PICTURE OF APRI1s DIVERGENCE METER, IF SO PLEASE LET ME SEE IT..

 

[Apri1]

So you admit that there isn't any technology capable of making the meter?

That's not what I said at all. I said we don't have a true random number generator, which makes sense, as nothing is random.

I am painfully aware that such a meter is incredibly difficult to make. I am offering you suggestions and your dismissing them without even understanding what I'm saying.

I understand what you're saying. Pseudo-RNGs will just result in the same number and thus not change.

In regards to the Bounced Multi-Calculated RNG suggestion it's guaranteed at least one timeline will have the same output but it's guaranteed using basically every single method you try.

No, not "one". All of them. With pseudo-rng, the result will always be the same.

Anyway, if you seem to know everything about making the meter, why the hell did you come here and ask us how to make them?

Also, my design idea is still more advanced than yours, and has functionality for being able measure the difference in a different worldlines.

Is "your design idea" anything more than a pseudo-rng?

Your last attachment displays nothing, would you kindly please send me the picture of your own Divergence Meter, along with the electronics that you have built into it plus the theoretical perspective, as i requested previously....DOES ANY OTHER MEMBER HAVE A PICTURE OF APRI1s DIVERGENCE METER, IF SO PLEASE LET ME SEE IT..

I'm a bit confused what you're asking for. I have sent to pictures of it already. One of a cropped view, and one of the entire browser window. There are not "electronics" involved, just all code. You can view it on your own browser even. I explained the methodology twice now, one in the opening post, and again in a later post. So I'm a bit confused what you're asking for.

 

[paradox404]

That's not what I said at all. I said we don't have a true random number generator, which makes sense, as nothing is random.



I understand what you're saying. Pseudo-RNGs will just result in the same number and thus not change.



No, not "one". All of them. With pseudo-rng, the result will always be the same.



Is "your design idea" anything more than a pseudo-rng?



I'm a bit confused what you're asking for. I have sent to pictures of it already. One of a cropped view, and one of the entire browser window. There are not "electronics" involved, just all code. You can view it on your own browser even. I explained the methodology twice now, one in the opening post, and again in a later post. So I'm a bit confused what you're asking for.

It seems you still don't understand basic multi world mechanics. Also last I checked a RNG doesn't spit out 42 every time it's used?

Let me explain the basic mechanisms at play. Every possibility is quantified in some fashion across a near infinite number of timelines. Each timeline has its own signature, its own variation of technology and thus certain timelines will have their own variations on the pseudo-RNG and some may even have actual ones. (Unlikely as the RNGs are based on some variable and you can't change this fact.)

Anyway, different timelines have different seeds, different algorithms etc. There would even be a timeline where you simply programmed a static number into the website. Anyway the concept I mentioned needs a large sample size is to maximize the number of potential results. In all these alternate timelines different events occur, regardless of the methods gone to create them.

What I am suggesting is the best modern technology has to offer. Anyway as I said you can't write a program to calculate something you yourself do not understand.