Debate John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?

[Roth Joint]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Goodwin\")</div>

It must be marvellous to argue with such passion the inevitabilty of fiery death for billions. </span>[/b]

<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>Let me say it with the exact words ?John Titor? used:
</span>
<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>?Based on your ability to draw conclusions about someone\'s profile from their typed words I find it hard to believe you would make such errors in the syntax and meaning of the exact same words. Unfortunately, you have now manoeuvred yourself into a position where I have the last word and our debate has come to an end.?

</span><span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>If there won?t be a break out of a US civil war in 2005, it will mean that ?John Titor?s? personal mission has been accomplished. And therefore mine as well.

???perhaps its more interesting to consider what I won\'t be doing to try and stop that war.?
</span>
<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>Remember:
</span>
<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>?Again, it\'s hard to judge good and bad outcomes, only good and bad</span><span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>decisions.?
</span>
<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>?Our actions and decisions are based on the knowledge we have in our own worldline.?
</span>
<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>?There are no good and bad people, just good and bad decisions.?
</span>
<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>And:
</span>
<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>?Your example of what people would do based on something I might say is accurate. However, my concern would be the potential actions of a single person, not the masses. In 1963, if I suggested that someone should watch the book depository windows as the President went by, the actions of a single person might have a huge impact on history.?
</span><span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>
<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>And last:

</span></span>
<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>?For a change, I have a question for all of you. I want you to think, think very hard. What major disaster was expected and prepared for in the last year and a half......??
</span><span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>
</span><span style=\'font-family:Verdana\'>
</span><span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>Bring a gas can with you when the car dies on the side of the road!
</span>
<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>Farewell.
</span>
<span style=\'font-family:Comic Sans MS\'>Roth Joint

 

[Keroscene]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

"There are no good and bad people, just good and bad decisions.?

Sound advice, especially for children.

 

[sinister]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

is it really childish of an idea? you may forget that on these boards we're all surrounded by some pretty intelligent people. Around me constantly, I see people who can't seem to figure this out. The falsehood of morality has been so far ingrained in people these days. This is a fantastic thing when it leads to responsibility and empathy towards others, but often I find it can lead to stubbornness, close-mindedness, and obliviousness. Just think about this, its all fine and dandy when we've all been engrained with a moral system that works and is logical. But when we've been engrained with a moral system that is flawed, that presents a problem. Of course, this is all from my perspective, so I can't imagine it means much as everyone's perspective is equally valuable, but just saying I think some of Titor's comments have (regardless of what you believe he was all about) meaning.

 

[Goodwin]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Let me say it with the exact words ?John Titor? used:

Based on your ability to draw conclusions about someone's profile from their typed words I find it hard to believe you would make such errors in the syntax and meaning of the exact same words.


O Jeez, Roth Joint, what does that even mean...? And how is it in any way relevant to the argument? Your use of Titor's quates are getting as crypic as the hoaxing loon himself.


Unfortunately, you have now manoeuvred yourself into a position where I have the last word and our debate has come to an end.?

Well, once again: Not what I'd call an exact prediction as here I am!

God, you just walk into this stuff, don't you?

Speaking of children...this line of argument reminds me very much of the style of debate adopted by a sniffy teenager. (oh, just checked the profile - you say that you ARE a teenager! ) Claiming the last word and then petulantly walking out of the room does not win you a conclusive victory. In fact, by your own logic...


... you have now manoeuvred yourself into a position where I have the last word and our debate has come to an end.


Well, here I am, Roth Joint, as I said, having the last word. And seeing as you've announced your case is closed you are in no position to return and debate further - unless you're willing to confirm the sulky teenager image and explode back in here for more babbling and hand waving. But you and I know how irredeemably lame that would appear.

So this is just another instance where your bold claims can be shown to be similar to Titor's in that they are just plain mistaken.

However, exactly as I predicted, you have stated, finally, that its your belief that if Titor's claims come to nothing...it will be as a direct result of Titor 'completing his mission'. And no one can say otherwise, right?

Well, that's all well and good as long as you accept then, that there will be no more and no less credible reason for anyone to believe this than to believe that Titor was Elvis Presley.

Oh, by the way,

Bring a gas can with you when the car dies on the side of the road!



I don't drive, Roth Joint. Just cycle.

Hmmm

Here's another theory for ya.

Seems to me that the real 'Titor' poster simply couldn't resist keeping tabs and indulging a little in the delicious hoax they'd created.

So one of the best leads to identifying them would be to examine those that argue 'Titor's' case the most fervently and in the the most similar style.

Take this Roth Joint clown for e.g.

Two weeks ago he posted this:


"Virtual Girl, I compliment you on your hard work and creativity. What you have found is exactly what "John Titor" wanted you to find and you may consider yourself the first person who discovered his creation."

Who gave Roth Joint the inside track on what 'Titor' intended people to find? And how come he knows Virtual Girl was the first to spot it?

Seems awfully fishy to me.

Does this make me paranoid? Maybe. But it seems to be one of the things this board thrives on. Besides, makes a helluva lot more sense than Back To The Future-style time travelling Chevrolets.

Here's something else Roth Joint said:

... It shows his delighted sense of humor and it shows his ability to make us alert of the events unfolding in this year 2005 as mentioned by him in 2001.

A delighted sense of humour may well be what we've all been the victims of.

Especially its now clear that whoever's behind 'Titor' plans to make a mint on merchandising. I mean, I ask you, was one of the purposes of 'Titor's mission really to sell mugs and T-shirts? 'Mugs' is definitely the operative word. And, indeed, only my current 'last' word, Roth Joint.

 

[Keroscene]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"sinister\")</div>

is it really childish of an idea? you may forget that on these boards we're all surrounded by some pretty intelligent people[/b]

In my post I wasn't calling it a childish idea or questioning anyones intelligence. I was saying that wouldn't be very good advice for children. There are bad, horrible, evil people in this world regardless of their "decisions." I'm partial to "Don't take candy from strangers."

Would I be wrong to generalize more recent posts as saying, "Even if he wasn't real we still need to listen to what he had to say." How can a foundation be built upon such a thing? If the time travel part wasn't true, which was everything, how much else can be? If it's OK I'd like to use Goodwin's Elvis as an example of how easy it would be to provide a theory and then show an endless sea of true data to support an obvious lie. If general knowledge of Elvis didn't supercede his theories, how could one be proven wrong? Basically JT either traveled through time or he didn't and predictions don't make time travel possible, no matter how many come true or how much evidence is shown in support of them. I doubt it will ever be proven true or a hoax, as long as people believe and hear what they want, thats what they'll get.

 

[Goodwin]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

I'd like to use Goodwin's Elvis as an example of how easy it would be to provide a theory and then show an endless sea of true data to support an obvious lie. If general knowledge of Elvis didn't supercede his theories, how could one be proven wrong?

Precisely. Which is why this Titor nonsense has survived this long and thanks to the ins and outs of scientific pseudo-babble will probably continue to do so. Originally he claimed the civil war would kick off in 2004. Well, now that we're half way through 2005 it can only mean there's been a divergance in our time-line, right?

Couldn't help but notice over at the decidely pro-Titor 'John Titor Times' , depositary of 'everything Titor,' they mysteriously (and tellingly) do not have a link to one of the biggest give-aways in the whole story - the notoriously funny 'laser' picture'.

http://communities.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/b...ic;f=9;t=001138

I believe the only person who supposedly spoke with Titor had a tough time getting this pic out of him - presumably he'd prepared his documented 'evidence' carefully but was less than happy that this picture would help his cause so he was very reluctant to submit it - and an examination of it shows why.

Hail the King!

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

I'd like to use Goodwin's Elvis as an example of how easy it would be to provide a theory and then show an endless sea of true data to support an obvious lie. If general knowledge of Elvis didn't supercede his theories, how could one be proven wrong?

Hey if you're so arrogant about your accusations, why don't you debunk JT's no WMD Iraq war prediction?

 

[Goodwin]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Hey if you're so arrogant about your accusations, why don't you debunk JT's no WMD Iraq war prediction?

Well, I guess even a stopped clock tells the time twice a day. And frankly I would have to doubt the authenticity of any supposed dates connected with the hoaxers predictions.

Why won't the pro-Titor's face up to the huge failings in the accuracy of the bulk of these predictions?

Here's my friend Jarjar:

"Titor is clearly a hoaxer. The very fact that he chose to write his stuff on pro-paranormal and pro-consipiracy message boards proves it. If he was real he'd be discussing his 'time-travel device' on science and philosophy boards with those truly able to examine his theories. He chose his audience carefully, like all great hoaxers do, to single-out those most likely to believe his crap and least likely to be able to counter it. It's a mixture of cold-reading and psychology, no different to the tactics used by psychics and fortune tellers.

If he wanted to prove he was real all it would have taken was a single sentence - 'In September 2001 the world will change.' He hasn't given anything away, he hasn't 'endangered the timeline' or whatever excuse he'd use to dodge the difficult questions, and he hasn't given us any specifics, but we'd sure as hell know what he was talking about when it happened. But Titor never once gave any clue to the terrorist attacks or the Wars on Terror that have been such a huge global topic from 2001 onwards. What he DID say is that civil unrest would start in 2004 with a disputed election, none of which happened. The election wasn't disputed (people didn't like it, but it wasn't disputed) and no meaningful civil unrest has yet occured. Clearly the guy was taking his cue from what happened in the 2000 election, but unfortunately for him Bush won fair and square this time around.

He also seems to be suggesting that this 'civil war' was between anti-government rural groups and pro-government city-dwellers. Sorry, Titor, but wrong again. Try taking a look at who voted for who in the last election - most Bush-supporters are rural and most liberals are found in the cities. Oops!

He also expects us to believe that these future people can build advanced time machines but can't crack the codes of a 1970's IBM computer!

I mean, the guy wants us to believe that people put a time machine in a car! Great Scot! Why not just say it needs to get up to 88mph while he's at it?!

He also said that when he left his parents would release a video of him time travelling to prove he was telling the truth. So has he? Has he balls!

The guy was clever, I'll give him that; at least more clever than the gullible people who bought into his crap. I can't believe people are still entertaining the notion that he was a real time-traveller from the year 2036 "

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

So you admit you can't debunk it?

 

[Goodwin]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Passive_Extremist\")</div>

So you admit you can't debunk it?[/b]

Well, can you come up with a satisfactory non-Buckaroo Banzai explanation for 9/11 or this little zinger?:

Now for the future you might want to know about. Y2K is a disaster. Many people die on the highways when they freeze to death trying to get to warmer weather. The government tries to keep power by instituting marshall law but all of it collapses when their efforts to bring the power back up fail.

Titor could (assuming his WMD prediction came bonafidely before the Iraq war - can you prove for a fact that it did? Where is the link to that by the way? Please don't post it from the John Titor Times. As I said above they've withdrawn the picture of Titor's bent laser and this makes them even more suspect in my eyes) have guessed right about WMDs. But with regard to Y2K... I mean, there's wrong and then there's just plain WRONG.

More than that, Titor's claimed detour to 2000 was, he said, specifically to experience the millennium bug. Why? There were no real effects from it, but he also gave the wrong year (the changeover from1999 to 2000 was critical, not 2000 to 2001)