John Titor's Non-lethal Weapon

JT's non lethal weopon...

Uh, Cary, I have this problem when I talk to people too. People can't tell when I'm exagerating for humor's sake, or to make a point. I was joking.
The teargas turned cyanide though was a reference to what was used at Waco.
 
JT's non lethal weopon...

Originally posted by Darkwolf@Oct 26 2004, 04:17 AM
A weapon is a weapon is a weapon. Don't shoot at my family with one of these things, I don't care what you call it.
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I woulden't dream of it Paul. At least where I work those things are only used on people who are trying to harm others. You don't strike me as that type.
Phil
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I didn't mean that you would, you yourself. I meant the "you" generally, in the conversational sense.

By the way, who makes the decision to start using the weapons on those who aren't really trying to harm anyone? To use them on a crowd, in which it is impossible to isolate the actual troublemakers? Is any of that a political decision?

Who institutes the new policy, when it comes, to expand the use of such weapons to potential criminals? Do you think that it must pass through a legislature? Is your chief of police qualified to make a quick decision about who deserves to be a target?

This is the age of the preemptive rationalization and the rationalized preemptive strike. "We will not wait to be attacked." This rationale is seeping into civilian life, and the division between military and civilian is constantly being blurred, especially in the field of law enforcement. In "combat," the enemy nowadays is frequently lurking in a slum or suburb and not wearing a uniform, and in "crime fighting" nowadays, the SWAT teams look like paratroopers from the movie Brazil and the criminals are wearing team colors and insignia.

The police and gangsters carry weapons in America traditionally which come straight off the battlefield. A lot of this has to do with the need to market surplus weapons when a war suddenly ends, as with the Tommy guns in WWI, which had to be sold to farmers in the Midwest, who were told they were good to eradicate rats in the barn. Instead, the weapons ended up in the hands of Baby Face Nelson and John Dillinger.

The LA police department a few years ago received a shipment of bayonets under a federal grant.

These are some of the reasons why the founders of the country wanted to restrict and contain the military, and wanted to rely on a folk army of militia. They knew that a standing army would eventually seep into the community and militarize life, and didn't want mercenaries confiscating their homes and overtaking civil rule.

We are a nation of laws not soldiers.

We are not in a state of war. No war has been declared. No nation has declared war against us. We are involved in an international police action attempting to impose U.S. law on foreign nationals in their own countries. Part of this effort involves the putative effort to arrest Osama Bin Laden, a recognized international mass murderer. The federal government has used this campaign as a cover to suppress fundamental Constitutional rights. To succeed in doing so, it will need to arm the nation's police into a branch of the U.S. military.

Is there any sign that it has not done so?
 
JT's non lethal weopon...

Darkwolf,

Thanks for the clarification. I thought some of those "lethal" weapons were off the grid. Happens to me too, people taking me seriously when I'm joking, and think I'm joking when I'm being serious. Must be bad timing on my part.

Paul,

The evidence about the militarization of the police force is out there for all to see. Most people either don't want to believe it or won't believe, or think it's a "real good idea". Have you read what happens when the terror level goes to "red"? Seems FEMA and Northern Command take over the civilian govt. State and local govts. will be run by the military, especially the police. Yup, I'd say you're dead on with your assessment. Yeeha.

Cary
 
JT's non lethal weopon...

The evidence about the militarization of the police force is out there for all to see. Most people either don't want to believe it or won't believe, or think it's a \"real good idea\". Have you read what happens when the terror level goes to \"red\"? Seems FEMA and Northern Command take over the civilian govt. State and local govts. will be run by the military, especially the police. Yup, I'd say you're dead on with your assessment. Yeeha.
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And this is a good thing? :(<span style='color:purple'> nahhh, thats been done...
 
JT's non lethal weopon...

Being an American, I never really understood the woods Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines as they apply to the rest of the world. What one country considers their "Navy" we would call Coast Guard, and what we call "Navy" they would call "international self appointed overbearing colonial intent world police peace keeping force". Same for all the other branches. :(
 
JT's non lethal weopon...

Setting the bayonets aside for a moment, one of the reasons that the police depts have automatic weapons, esp. the SWAT teams was due to confronting drug dealers in this new age. Hard to hold your own when you are up against several people that are armed with ak47's, Uzzi's, M15's, MAC9's and MAC10's when all you have responded with is a 38 and the pump shotgun in your unit. Even with a speed loader, you can't keep up with over a 1000 rounds per min flying past you.

So, you strive to stay at least close. You may have noticed that most large city police no longer use. 38's It is now the 380 or 9mm. Most policeman pay out of pocket as this may not be standard issue. They are concerned for their own lives while doing their job by protecting yours.

Then came one of the scariest bullets yet, the Teflon Tip or the Cop Killer round. It renders a Kevlar Bullet Proof Vest useless. There is only one use for a bullet like that. Now, imagine the thoughts that may run by you knowing that the protection you have on may not be enough to keep you alive.

Like us, the law enforcement grunts, non officer types, are going to be stuck in the middle if it ever comes to the point of rediculous orders againts the citizens rights enmasse. Do we blame them for following orders? Sure, someone, some where is going to have to put their foot down and say no, but where along that chain will that happen?

Perhaps this specific conundrum is the reason for the theory circulating that if it comes to it, the dark clad specialists will be from Europe and not citizens? It's hard to keep up with all the speculation out there regarding these internment centers with the backward set barbwire. My hope is that this is nothing but hogwash and when the fan gets hit, everyone awakes and says "Not a chance, Not on my watch!"
 
JT's non lethal weopon...

We have a government of the people, by the people, for the people... so, how is it that this regime can be stopped?
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We haven't had a govt. of, by and for the people for quite some time now Timmy. It ain't just this regime that needs to be stopped. This has been going on for a lot longer than "this regime".

Cary
 
JT's non lethal weopon...

When you boil it all down, we have a dictatorship controlled by FIVE people (the majority opinion of the supreme court). When they gave their majority opinion on sodomy laws in Texas, they said they went by World Opinion. I wonder if they even considered the U.S. constitution? I wonder what they went by when they did not overturn campaign finance laws...definitely not the constitution. :(

If someone put a gun to your head and forced you to pick either Bush or Kerry to choose Supreme Court Judges, who would you rather be picking SC Judges? Kerry already said he values the UN Flag more than the US Flag. Would Bush be any better? Clearly Bush values the USA more than ANY other country, if you go by world opinion. I heard the other day someone say, it's good these middle easter countries hate us, it showing us that we are doing something right! I am not quite that exteme in my thinking, but I have been to 42 different countries while I was in the US Navy and at least by my personal experience, verified by standard of living studies, I would rather have the USA run like it has historically been run, than have it run by the governments of the countries that hate us.
 
JT's non lethal weopon...

Like us, the law enforcement grunts, non officer types, are going to be stuck in the middle if it ever comes to the point of rediculous orders againts the citizens rights enmasse. Do we blame them for following orders? Sure, someone, some where is going to have to put their foot down and say no, but where along that chain will that happen?

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Timmy, I can't get into detail for obvious reasons. But you might be surprised what happens when those orders are given to local cops. Alot of us ain't any more happy with the way things are going than you are.

Paul, I hope that you do aknolage the nessisety of stopping violent riots at some point. If you let them run, somone will die eventually. Usually sooner than later. Also the lives, property and livlihoods of everyone who lives and works in the area are in danger. Unfortunatly, there is not a really nice way to do that. The LA riots are an example of where the police were reluctant to stop a riot at the outset. If they had waited longer, I think that we might still be having a nation wide race war.

Phil
 
JT's non lethal weopon...

Darkwolf,

I don't know if you were replying to my post regarding new weapons that SWAT has to keep up ect...

My point in the post was the other side of the coin as a law enforcement perspective. I wonder if you have seen "Dr. Strangelove or How I stopped worrying..."

That film has many questions to answer if one were to put themselves in that place. I myself thought about situations like that and wondered what I would have done if the situation ever came about. Being in a position of protecting people and then having orders that may cause harm to your own people as opposed to the "enemy".

You can spend many hours while on duty trying to decide which way to jump. It is one of the most hardest questions a person would EVER have to face in my humble opinion.

There is your duty, the one you swore a oath upon. Then there is your DUTY to your fellow man, one where rights as a American given to us by the Constitution, should never be trampled upon.

I believe that if and when the time comes, the decisions made by the people in those places that have the most impact upon our rights, not the law makers, we will see the true spirit of the patriot rise amongst the ashes and stand tall for all to see, that you cannot legislate spirit out of individuals. We have shed too much blood and sacrificed too many sons and daughters in the past wars to have some greedy insane fool or group of fools manipulate a country to serve their own selfish desires.
 

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