Patriot Act type legislation

[Darkwolf]

Re: Patriot Act type legislation

If you can spot an aspiring scumbag while he's still just aspiring, you've got a finer sense of smell than I do. And you sure as hell don't want the government to have the power to label individuals as criminals when they're still in the larval aspiring-scumbag stage.

I sure can spot them. I'm not talking about labeling anyone. I am talking about swift and harsh punishment the first time a kid does somthing beyond normal teenage hijinks. If they learn the law has teeth, it is less likely that there will be a second time. Thus less likely that they become career criminals.

Maybe if they enlisted on a probationary basis, without pay for two years, we could make decent soldiers out of incipient criminals.

Maby, possibly. The potential consiquences of being wrong on this one are pretty horiffic though. Beginning with gang bangers returning to their gangs actually knowing how to shoot and use light infantry tactics. Gangs are in fact light infantry formations who could with some training become urban warfare specialists. With the gangs taking on pollitical and racial agendas as they slowly are, I don't think thats such a good Idea.
The best soldiers are the people who want to be soldiers. I don't see how conscripting criminals is going to improve our armed forces.

 

[Judge Bean]

Re: Patriot Act type legislation

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darkwolf\")</div>

I sure can spot them. I'm not talking about labeling anyone. I am talking about swift and harsh punishment the first time a kid does somthing beyond normal teenage hijinks. If they learn the law has teeth, it is less likely that there will be a second time. Thus less likely that they become career criminals.
[/b]

But the law has no teeth now. You can't live in a kingdom of Misrule, in which the leaders do whatever they want and discard the law of the land, and expect respect for law and order on the street level. Currently, the only people fighting for and enforcing the law are ordinary law enforcement officers.

Under the old system, or the ideal one we tried to have before, the punishment was supposed to fit the crime. This means that the worst punishments were reserved for the worst crimes. One of the worst penalties is life in prison, but right now I'm sitting in the middle of a province in the land of misrule in which you can get a life term for Drunk Driving or Shoplifting. This lessens the public respect for the law, and it's that respect that we rely on to fight crime, because we rely on the deterrent power of punishment. If you can get almost any punishment for almost any crime, it all becomes simply a matter of what you can get away with, and you will tend to shoot the witnesses.

As for juvenile offenders, the best way to solve that problem is to get these boys fathers, or uncles, or some men to show them how to become men. I can't tell you how many of my clients grew up without fathers, but I know it's a huge percentage.

Maby, possibly. The potential consiquences of being wrong on this one are pretty horiffic though. Beginning with gang bangers returning to their gangs actually knowing how to shoot and use light infantry tactics. Gangs are in fact light infantry formations who could with some training become urban warfare specialists. With the gangs taking on pollitical and racial agendas as they slowly are, I don't think thats such a good Idea.
The best soldiers are the people who want to be soldiers. I don't see how conscripting criminals is going to improve our armed forces.

You have to learn to think like the enemy. The enemy is the illegal federal authorities. I call them illegal because they have trashed the Constitution. They see the gangs just as you do, as infantry companies, but they also see them as antigovernment militia. It's not for us to decide whether they are suitable soldiers; they are already de facto members of the irregular armed forces of the U.S.

Throughout history, foot soldiers have been criminals-- rapists, looters, killers. The modern version throughout the world is not much of a change in the old standard model, but the advantages of civilization have trained us to use the common soldier as a tidy grunt doing the bidding of corporate giants, and, at least as far as Americans are concerned, we have the finest and most moral armed forces in human history.

Not perfect, though, as you can see. Maybe we can set all of these youngsters straight by instilling a sense of pride and duty in them instead of fear, hopelessness, and anger.

 

[Darkwolf]

Re: Patriot Act type legislation

but right now I'm sitting in the middle of a province in the land of misrule in which you can get a life term for Drunk Driving or Shoplifting. This lessens the public respect for the law, and it's that respect that we rely on to fight crime, because we rely on the deterrent power of punishment.

Good lord thats absurd. I know that you can also be charged with "terrorism" for giving somone the finger.

As for juvenile offenders, the best way to solve that problem is to get these boys fathers, or uncles, or some men to show them how to become men. I can't tell you how many of my clients grew up without fathers, but I know it's a huge percentage.

Holding families together would go a long way toward solving the problem. Unfortunatly, that can't really be done by legislation or regulation. The problem in the ghettos has gone on so long that such examples of honerable manliness are few and far between. Don't know what to do about that.

You have to learn to think like the enemy. The enemy is the illegal federal authorities. I call them illegal because they have trashed the Constitution. They see the gangs just as you do, as infantry companies, but they also see them as antigovernment militia. It's not for us to decide whether they are suitable soldiers; they are already de facto members of the irregular armed forces of the U.S.

This is true as most of them are men between the ages of 17 and I bilieve 47. However they have their own pollitical agendas, their own leadership and with some orginization could actually take some significant portions of the country as their own. If we train gang bangers, many will go and orginize the other gang bangers when they get home. Before suggesting this course of acction, you might want to ask yourself how far your house is from territory they already control.

 

[Judge Bean]

Re: Patriot Act type legislation

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darkwolf\")</div>

...examples of honerable manliness are few and far between. Don't know what to do about that.
[/b]

Aren't you one?

...If we train gang bangers, many will go and orginize the other gang bangers when they get home. Before suggesting this course of acction, you might want to ask yourself how far your house is from territory they already control.

This is what I expect to hear from the feds if they ever need to start a buzz or spin against a folk army.

I honestly don't know what you mean by the gangs having a political agenda. By definition, a gang is a criminal organization occupied with a "racket" such as protection, extortion, gambling, smuggling, prostitution, or dealing in stolen goods. The violence is a method of doing business, and isn't performed for its own sake. If you have an ugly organization with a political agenda, you have a political organization, such as the early Nazis or LaRouche's bunch-- or the Sons of Liberty.

So far in my line of work I have not had a single client gangmember with a political agenda as part of his gang affiliation. The point of the gang seems to be to party over and above all else: you need money, a car, drugs, booze, etc. The guns are mostly fashion accessories, and their main purpose seems to be to send the guy to prison for an extra year when he gets his tiny amount of meth/broken taillight/boomingspeaker bust.

I'm dying to find out what the political agenda of the Hell's Angels is.

 

[Darkwolf]

Re: Patriot Act type legislation

Aren't you one?

Yes, or at least I try to be. However I don't work in an inner city. Also many of the poor youth that we do have here see me as the enemy instantly beacause I am a cop, and I am white. I do encourage some of the kids who we have trouble with to contact me if they need to talk or need help. Occasionally one even takes me up on that. What they are lacking are enough examples of guys with similar backgrounds to them who made something of themselves through grit and hard work. Its not fair for them to assume that I grew up in wealth and privelage and am there to opress them, but most of them do.

This is what I expect to hear from the feds if they ever need to start a buzz or spin against a folk army.

I would expect that too, however it is not entirely without truth. Imagine what would have happened if the LA riots were conducted in a more orginized fashon and led by well armed and trained people.

So far in my line of work I have not had a single client gangmember with a political agenda as part of his gang affiliation. The point of the gang seems to be to party over and above all else: you need money, a car, drugs, booze, etc. The guns are mostly fashion accessories, and their main purpose seems to be to send the guy to prison for an extra year when he gets his tiny amount of meth/broken taillight/boomingspeaker bust.

Well, they have a pretty unorginized pollitical agenda. It usually has a racial component and can be summed up as break down and replace the rule of law in their area. Out here we also have a problem with mexican gangs/militias linked to the Aztlan movement. They have a definate pollitical/military goal, and use their orginized crime to finance that. We also have white supremicist groups who do the same thing. I have heard from a couple of city cops I know that at least some of the gangs there have a similar thing going on with a black nationalist slant.

 

[StarLord]

Re: Patriot Act type legislation

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Paul J. Lyon\")</div>

I'm dying to find out what the political agenda of the Hell's Angels is.[/b]

Every red blodded Brother of the Hog should be free to manufacture and distribute Crank where ever the wind blows....

But, we'd have to see what Sonny has to say about this.

 

[Darkwolf]

Re: Patriot Act type legislation

Every red blodded Brother of the Hog should be free to manufacture and distribute Crank where ever the wind blows....

But, we'd have to see what Sonny has to say about this.

Thats actually true. Thats another in the destroy and replace rule of law catagory. That is in fact a pollitical agenda.

 

[Judge Bean]

Re: Patriot Act type legislation

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darkwolf\")</div>

...in the destroy and replace rule of law catagory. That is in fact a pollitical agenda.[/b]

I see what you mean, and this is in fact what the "New Left" started to claim in the 60s about the government's agenda, operated through the CIA. If you push drugs into the streets that are particularly evil, you do in fact "push" a political agenda.

The CIA, then, is a giant gang in the overall organized-crime syndicate of the federal government, seeking to destroy the rule of law and replace it with a rule of crime, profiteering, and exploitation.

My opinion is that they will not have the cooperation of street gangs in carrying out this agenda, but will have their opposition instead. I think that they will unite on a La Raza and blood-brotherhood basis to defend themselves from the authorities-- if they do anything overtly political at all.

Even the Brothers of the Hog will have to choose between freedom and doing the bidding of the tyrant.

 

[Darkwolf]

Re: Patriot Act type legislation

My opinion is that they will not have the cooperation of street gangs in carrying out this agenda, but will have their opposition instead. I think that they will unite on a La Raza and blood-brotherhood basis to defend themselves from the authorities-- if they do anything overtly political at all.

Thats not what I ment. They, that is street gangs ect. are not working with the CIA or the government to tear down our lawful socioty and replace it. They are working (not all of them are consiously thinking that way) to replace it with a system in which they are in charge. Their agenda directly contradicts that of the PTB, but it also directly conflicts with ours. Those of us who want a free socioty under the rule of law have more than one set of enemies. It would not be a good move to start to look at one set as our friends just beacause they oppose the other. Gangbangers and their ilk are sociopathic criminals, and we would do well to recall that fable about the frog and the scorpien.

Even the Brothers of the Hog will have to choose between freedom and doing the bidding of the tyrant.

Certianly there are many in the biker culture who are on our side.

 

[Judge Bean]

Re: Patriot Act type legislation

And yet those who get the willies easily cannot often tell the difference between the good and the good, and just the ugly biker. And perhaps the biker himself cannot. And perhaps there is not much of a difference, really, until it comes down to the wire.

I remember having been saved from an armed robbery by a biker gang in Tucson. They all wore pistols on their hips Wyatt Earp style, and, by all accounts, the policeman Earp was a complete criminal-- pimp, killer.

I hope that the society we have after all of this is over will at least readjust its prejudices about who we need to be afraid of. Maybe the real threats are rich Saudis and Yalies rather than guys who are trying to avoid working for a living by means of tattoos and beer.