My first thread. Titor and Israel.

[Sliders]

Thank you for serving. All American citizen's are obligated to protect The Constitution against enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. You have great ideas! for argument sakes lets just say he did create a tree of new timelines, lets start with his alleged first jump to the 1970's, what if that was the first split off (which could be why Y2K never hit us, divergence was changed) then he travels forward (1998) but within that newly created tree of timelines, creates a new branch off out of that tree line and then goes forward again on that one (early 2000's). In may opinion the MWI is the best leading theory on the subject. Which is why multiple JT would need to share Divergence info in order to try to not to change things to dramatically. He knew his flight data was being recorded and he knew he would be in big trouble upon returning to 2036. Which I think he never returned to, would you ? ( I don't blame him ). Even if he did, it was probably to a timeline were he was not originally in the military and the mission had not taken place there. You are right on the reason his predictions are off by a few years and others are misses altogether. The reason behind this is that a timeline that is off by 1% divergence compared to another timeline is only 1% different compared to that timeline so things will be off a little like the timing of things but a timeline that has 3%-5% difference in divergence compared to another timeline things he predicted might be a total miss altogether there. Keep in mind we are in agreement he did create branch off of timelines. which is why civil war and ww3 are around the corner for us now instead of 2000-2004, back then we had 9/11 and Iraq instead... we did not get civil war in 2000 because of something he did 1970's related to the IBM 5100 (which caused that split off) and averted Y2K for us. I can only think that he at sometime wanted to fix things in the future but instead just delayed things, (realized that) regretted it tried to re fix things back to original and in the process made things worse and also encountered other johns trying to do the same thing, which he knew would happen. The last thing I wanted to add in my opinion when a split off (branch off happens) then newly created time lines are not aware that they have been newly created they just pick off with the same history as original they split off from it's only their futures that change from that point and on (the branch off event). I don't know which one we are in but most likely we are in one that split off from 1970's or 1998, with a divergence 2%-4% off from JT original timeline, the problem is he made things happen.......which changes things a bit. Also just for fun are you aware of Y2038 it's a the Y2K of the year 2038....

Glad to discuss this subject with you !

Ding, Ding, Ding...BINGO! You guys hit it on the nose! Most people just don't get any of this.

Yes, 2038 will be another Y2K if it is not prevented.

And I believe the reason we knew about Y2K is because John told his grandfather. That information was shared and trickled down to the entire population, who corrected the problem before anything major happened. Y2K was fixed and DIVERTED on our Timeline, and that information came from John Titor in 1975.

You and Anonynez are 2 of the few who have figured this out.

Thanks Sam, your right most people don't understand this stuff (even many titorite's)......
I think they started working on y2k in the 1970's he was related to some one over at IBM which is why he was chosen. I believe he told that person and that was the event that caused the split off. Also another TT talked about Y2038 he was on Art Bell.....

 

[titorite]

"Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election. The Jewish population in Israel is not prepared for a true offensive war. They are prepared for the ultimate defense. Wavering western support for Israel is what gives Israel's neighbors the confidence to attack. The last resort for a defensive Israel and its offensive Arab neighbors is to use weapons of mass destruction. In the grand scheme of things, the war in the Middle East is a part of what's to come, not the cause."~John Titor

One of the more funny things for me is being able to see the propaganda. Titor really believed this sort of stuff... When the leadership of the Union was split into five presidencies he thought it was good. So did his country men. In truth all that happened was that his timeline was set up for another revolution... another civil war. And the cycle will always recycle until you incorporate people into the structure of power. ... Until we have the right to have a say over what laws shall govern us DIRECTLY , till that day we shall always devolve into tyranny. Always. Revolution, decent into tyranny, revolution, decent into tyranny........ That is proly WHY they call them revolutions.... it is the same cycle repeating.

I plan to break it when the time comes.

Another misguided notion is this of the Israeli and the Arabs.

The Israeli have weapons of mass destruction. They commit false flags attacks on their own to justify genocide. They sterilise Black (Ethiopian ) jews that accept the invitation to Israel. Do you remember Rachel Corrie? I'll never forget her.

The Arabs.... Do not have weapons of mass destruction.... They can not even help the Gaza Blockaid runners make it.

The Ultimate defence? Not even. They want to kill all the Palestinians. All of them. Genocide is the ultimate defence. But the news portrays their barbarism very differently. Titor would of been a product of that influence. Like many today.

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti semitic but I do oppose Semite Supremacists.

It does seem though that now is the time... Western support is waning. More people are waking up to the fact that Israel is a dangerous, out of control, terrorist nation. .... They still want to move in on Gaza... The yahoo news I read today was all about how sad the Israeli are about the cease fire and how many think "Operation Kill Em All" should go on ahead and kill em all. And so many youtube comments favouring war and murder over peace and life. They want to attack... That nation... the society with in that nation... They want to Kill in the grossest way.

Nobody is going to attack Israel and yet that probably wont stop them from their "ultimate defence" ...

The time feels short for the last remaining Palestinians.

 

[Anonynez]

[/quote]Ding, Ding, Ding...BINGO! You guys hit it on the nose! Most people just don't get any of this.

Yes, 2038 will be another Y2K if it is not prevented.

And I believe the reason we knew about Y2K is because John told his grandfather. That information was shared and trickled down to the entire population, who corrected the problem before anything major happened. Y2K was fixed and DIVERTED on our Timeline, and that information came from John Titor in 1975.

You and Anonynez are 2 of the few who have figured this out.[/quote]


Delayed response. I was watching my Dallas Cowboys have their arses handed to them at Cowboys Stadium yesterday. GREAT seats! GREAT game ( although I am not happy with the outcome ) Either way, got to spend time with Family and that is all that matters to me.

If Titors story is correct, which I personally believe it to be (thats just me), then of course that is why the original Y2k was averted. He said his Grandfather "Tweaked" the machine in order to fix the 2038 bug, yet he only alluded to the Y2k scenario, which I always found cryptic. I think this was a rather convincing part of the argument that often goes un-noticed. He knew what Y2k would do in his timeline, but was yet unaware of what Y2038 would do because there was no way to know. Either he was very clever not to overwhelm the reader, or he was actually a time traveler that was finding out as he went along. It was almost as if he was just coming to terms with what he had actually done, but didnt want to completely let the cat out of the bag. Kind of like knowing what someone got for Christmas, but trying not to tell them. I like to think that they werent sure it would even work, then it did, and he was like "holy shiz!"

There is something I found interesting when I watched the short documentary "Obsessed and Scientific" by Jay Cheel. Larry Haber provided the note that JT allegedly typed out (delivered by Kay), and it thanked, as well as offered the credit to one of the engineers that helped to correct or "alter" our actual Y2k problem. Many parts of the letter are blacked out, but in the documentary it gives a visual and a reading by Larry Haber. You guys can go check it out if you havent already seen it. I would recommend the Vimeo version, as it has the full 25 min doc without breaking it into parts. This information for me, is what gave way to the idea that JT specifically took the tweaked machine, or the information from the tweaked machine, and put it in the hands of someone in particular. They then actually corrected what would have been Y2k. Typical JT, he didnt want the credit. Only wanted to help.

People often say, "why would they need an old computer from 1975 to fix something in the year 2036?" Oliver Williams gives best answer: "Nasa scours ebay for parts to keep the Space Shuttle running." So, this is plausible, yes?

Things that make me believe:
Fax to Art Bell in 1998 that stated we were missing a skyscraper in NY (unless involved in 9/11 attack, how could he know?)
CERN/Microsingularities (wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before CERN even thought they WOULD find MS's or the Higgs)
Hawking would change his theory on black holes in 2004 (he did)
Govt would lie to send us to war with Iraq and NO WMD's would be found (we did. they werent)
Fighting Diamondbacks Militia (which we found in 2010 as the "Fireteam Diamondbacks in West Tx and now the Fighting Diamondbacks KS)
Time Machine diagram reverse engineered and patented (which means it possibly works?)
Said he was leaving at certain day and time (did disappear. never heard from again. story still obsessive 11 years later.)


How do you guess at these things?....and get them right? I refuse to believe someone was so awesome at guessing. If an everyday person from our millenia required so much attention, they wouldnt throw the attention away and hide in a corner. They would openly step up and capitalize. For the most part, it is the way of our people. I challenge anyone to take JT and go make money off of it. Still no one will step forward to even claim copyright infringement, or Haber will see them in court, which would then subpoena PROOF of John Titor, which Haber cannot provide. There is none. Just a story, and some people like me that choose to believe it. Im getting into the Psychology behind it all, but thats what I like to do

 

[Anonynez]

BTW...I'm fine with straying off topic. It happens. Thoughts come and we try to convey. I reserve speaking on Israel specifically, but its not off base. Just curious as to what others think with regard to Titor possibly predicting the current situation.

 

[Sliders]

"Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election. The Jewish population in Israel is not prepared for a true offensive war. They are prepared for the ultimate defense. Wavering western support for Israel is what gives Israel's neighbors the confidence to attack. The last resort for a defensive Israel and its offensive Arab neighbors is to use weapons of mass destruction. In the grand scheme of things, the war in the Middle East is a part of what's to come, not the cause."~John Titor

One of the more funny things for me is being able to see the propaganda. Titor really believed this sort of stuff... When the leadership of the Union was split into five presidencies he thought it was good. So did his country men. In truth all that happened was that his timeline was set up for another revolution... another civil war. And the cycle will always recycle until you incorporate people into the structure of power. ... Until we have the right to have a say over what laws shall govern us DIRECTLY , till that day we shall always devolve into tyranny. Always. Revolution, decent into tyranny, revolution, decent into tyranny........ That is proly WHY they call them revolutions.... it is the same cycle repeating.

I plan to break it when the time comes.

Another misguided notion is this of the Israeli and the Arabs.

The Israeli have weapons of mass destruction. They commit false flags attacks on their own to justify genocide. They sterilise Black (Ethiopian ) jews that accept the invitation to Israel. Do you remember Rachel Corrie? I'll never forget her.

The Arabs.... Do not have weapons of mass destruction.... They can not even help the Gaza Blockaid runners make it.

The Ultimate defence? Not even. They want to kill all the Palestinians. All of them. Genocide is the ultimate defence. But the news portrays their barbarism very differently. Titor would of been a product of that influence. Like many today.

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti semitic but I do oppose Semite Supremacists.

It does seem though that now is the time... Western support is waning. More people are waking up to the fact that Israel is a dangerous, out of control, terrorist nation. .... They still want to move in on Gaza... The yahoo news I read today was all about how sad the Israeli are about the cease fire and how many think "Operation Kill Em All" should go on ahead and kill em all. And so many youtube comments favouring war and murder over peace and life. They want to attack... That nation... the society with in that nation... They want to Kill in the grossest way.

Nobody is going to attack Israel and yet that probably wont stop them from their "ultimate defence" ...

The time feels short for the last remaining Palestinians.

I was hoping you joined the conversation. Good thinking minds on this one ( I think it's going to be a great conversation )

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin (I think...lol)

Your comments on the GAZA/ARAB situation are very well written. Agree. It also seems to me as well that John was sympathetic to the hole Christian/Jew situation...

I am not anti semitic but I do oppose radical orthodox jews (they even killed Christ himself)...

Any how, what are your thoughts on what path you think we will go into ? and how can we learn from John's story what not to do?

 

[Sliders]

Ding, Ding, Ding...BINGO! You guys hit it on the nose! Most people just don't get any of this.

Yes, 2038 will be another Y2K if it is not prevented.

And I believe the reason we knew about Y2K is because John told his grandfather. That information was shared and trickled down to the entire population, who corrected the problem before anything major happened. Y2K was fixed and DIVERTED on our Timeline, and that information came from John Titor in 1975.

You and Anonynez are 2 of the few who have figured this out.[/quote]


Delayed response. I was watching my Dallas Cowboys have their arses handed to them at Cowboys Stadium yesterday. GREAT seats! GREAT game ( although I am not happy with the outcome ) Either way, got to spend time with Family and that is all that matters to me.

If Titors story is correct, which I personally believe it to be (thats just me), then of course that is why the original Y2k was averted. He said his Grandfather "Tweaked" the machine in order to fix the 2038 bug, yet he only alluded to the Y2k scenario, which I always found cryptic. I think this was a rather convincing part of the argument that often goes un-noticed. He knew what Y2k would do in his timeline, but was yet unaware of what Y2038 would do because there was no way to know. Either he was very clever not to overwhelm the reader, or he was actually a time traveler that was finding out as he went along. It was almost as if he was just coming to terms with what he had actually done, but didnt want to completely let the cat out of the bag. Kind of like knowing what someone got for Christmas, but trying not to tell them. I like to think that they werent sure it would even work, then it did, and he was like "holy shiz!"

There is something I found interesting when I watched the short documentary "Obsessed and Scientific" by Jay Cheel. Larry Haber provided the note that JT allegedly typed out (delivered by Kay), and it thanked, as well as offered the credit to one of the engineers that helped to correct or "alter" our actual Y2k problem. Many parts of the letter are blacked out, but in the documentary it gives a visual and a reading by Larry Haber. You guys can go check it out if you havent already seen it. I would recommend the Vimeo version, as it has the full 25 min doc without breaking it into parts. This information for me, is what gave way to the idea that JT specifically took the tweaked machine, or the information from the tweaked machine, and put it in the hands of someone in particular. They then actually corrected what would have been Y2k. Typical JT, he didnt want the credit. Only wanted to help.

People often say, "why would they need an old computer from 1975 to fix something in the year 2036?" Oliver Williams gives best answer: "Nasa scours ebay for parts to keep the Space Shuttle running." So, this is plausible, yes?

Things that make me believe:
Fax to Art Bell in 1998 that stated we were missing a skyscraper in NY (unless involved in 9/11 attack, how could he know?)
CERN/Microsingularities (wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before CERN even thought they WOULD find MS's or the Higgs)
Hawking would change his theory on black holes in 2004 (he did)
Govt would lie to send us to war with Iraq and NO WMD's would be found (we did. they werent)
Fighting Diamondbacks Militia (which we found in 2010 as the "Fireteam Diamondbacks in West Tx and now the Fighting Diamondbacks KS)
Time Machine diagram reverse engineered and patented (which means it possibly works?)
Said he was leaving at certain day and time (did disappear. never heard from again. story still obsessive 11 years later.)


How do you guess at these things?....and get them right? I refuse to believe someone was so awesome at guessing. If an everyday person from our millenia required so much attention, they wouldnt throw the attention away and hide in a corner. They would openly step up and capitalize. For the most part, it is the way of our people. I challenge anyone to take JT and go make money off of it. Still no one will step forward to even claim copyright infringement, or Haber will see them in court, which would then subpoena PROOF of John Titor, which Haber cannot provide. There is none. Just a story, and some people like me that choose to believe it. Im getting into the Psychology behind it all, but thats what I like to do [/quote]


That fax throws me off as well, might as well of been a news paper from the future...I can only add that his past was very much like are present, but I think his was a bit more extreme or ours has been altered in which case our future is likely to be much different than his. Did anyone ever find out his grandfathers real name, maybe we can search by IBM 5100 Egineer's list ? Narrow it down ?

 

[Samstwitch]

Did anyone ever find out his grandfathers real name, maybe we can search by IBM 5100 Egineer's list ? Narrow it down ?

I did this many years ago. However, giving this information to others would put John and his family in danger. I did it, because I was researching and was curious. But I would never share my conclusions with anyone. Not to be mean or arrogant or anything like that, it's just that I have John's best interest at heart. Another person also researched his grandfather and published what information he found. To me, that was a wreckless thing to do for John's sake. IMO, anyone concerned for the safety of John and his family would never have revealed that information, let alone publish it. My research extended even further than his. That's all I can say about it. My biggest hope is that John and his family always remain safe. There are people who have threatened to even kill some of those involved in the Titor affair. That's how crazy the world of Titor Piranhas is today.

 

[titorite]

The equation to figure out who grand dad was is not impossible to work out. At the time I was doing my leg work in this story .... I was following leads. Started making contact with the remaining project mercury engineers. Then before I got to close I had to stop. By then though it may of been too late but what might of been? ..... I had to stop... same reasons Sam gave.

I couldn't live with the fact that I might help the feds trail the story as well... then again stupidity is fairly predictable for a time... I stopped in 03 .

On an aside... Has anyone ever seen the original AmericanFederalEmpire dot org. Or it's mirror dot com site. The one with just two jpegs and some text?

Nobody I have ever asked has seen it yet.

I never got a screen shot or a pic. I have only my memory. Even the Way back machine lies about it. I only found it because I was randomly searching web addresses. I am still waiting to learn what was behind that... So far I remain alone in witness. To my knowledge.

 

[titorite]

This information for me, is what gave way to the idea that JT specifically took the tweaked machine, or the information from the tweaked machine, and put it in the hands of someone in particular. They then actually corrected what would have been Y2k. Typical JT, he didnt want the credit. Only wanted to help.

I think John ran into an unexpected problem with his grand dad which lead us to all this.


You can bring proof you are a time travelor. You can talk about major events you've studied for specifically so you can use them for the occasion.

What you can not do is force someone to help you.

Johns Grand father was in a position of power and if those were my shoes ... well to even start on fixing the problem I would have to know about the problem. Both Y2k and 2038. And of course in doing this favour I would insist upon sharing the information about both failures in code.

And before I committed , I might just insist that my time travelling grand son , visit my children/his parents in the future, so that he could come back and give me an idea of the consequences of our actions, on both a personal level and world wide level.

Yaup, I think his grand dad coerced him into checking up on the kids.

In exchange he did him the favour and tweaked the machine.

Their has to be an easier way.

The warning was enough.
Thank God.

 

[Samstwitch]

The agreement between John and his grandfather was that he travel ahead to 1998 and warn his family about Y2K and help them prepare for it. That's what the deal was between them. (If you can, read the book that John's mother published of John's Internet posts and writings. Her side comments are very informative.)

John's grandfather tweaked the IBM 5100 that he gave him to take back to his Timeline, but he couldn't tweak all the rest of the computers. By then the machines had already gone out and were distributed. All his grandfather could do was to warn his colleague's, the Engineers, about the problem. (Who knows if anyone even believed him way back then. His bosses might have poo-pooed the idea, because Y2K was 32 years away.)

Eventually, those Engineers in turn passed on the information to the public, but nobody listened until the 1990's. The closer we got to the Year 2000, the more experts began listening. When they discovered that it was true, they worked on a Y2K 'Fix'.

The Y2K fix cost BILLIONS of dollars to fix and a LOT of time. Companies and agencies started addressing the problem about 2 years before the year 2000, but many waited longer. As a results, computer experts were hired from around the world to fix computers to become Y2K compliant. They were scrambling to fix the problem in time.

That's why President Bill Clinton formed the 'President's Council on Y2K Conversion'. It was a Federal Task Force formed to bring the attention of the problem to businesses, agencies, and the public...to take the Y2K problem seriously so it could be fixed.

I know about all this, because I co-founded a Y2K Task Force in Humboldt County, CA. We addressed fixing the Y2K problem on a county level. I also received an acknowledgement Certificate/Award from the President's Y2K Council for my work. Only 3 Awards were given in my county. (I'm not bragging, I'm trying to make a point that I know what I'm talking about.) A representative from the President's Council even held a Live television event in our city with a Panel for Q&A, trying to inform the public, using our efforts as an example, in an effort to take the Y2K problem seriously. (That's why it pisses me off when somebody says Y2K was a bunch of hooey! Anyone who says that doesn't know squat about it.)

--------MORE---------

There were some Y2K conversions that were not finished in time.

EXAMPLE: PG&E in Northern California had a Y2K glitch happen. Electric and Gas bills were not sent out for MONTHS, then suddenly everyone got bills for hundreds and/or thousands of dollars for past months! There were tons of people who experienced this problem, and the utility company could NOT shut off their power for not paying their bills, because they had not received them. So PG&E told everyone to come in and work out payment plans to pay off their utility bills.

My sons were one of the victims of that Y2K glitch. They got a utility bill for $1,200 and I still have the original in my Research Journals.

That is just one example. But it would have been much worse, if no conversions had been made. PG&E was just late in taking the problem seriously, and it cost them. But the good news was, at least the utilities didn't shut down! It was only the Billing Department that had problems.

---------Military Efforts---------

The Federal government also trained and prepared the military for Civil Unrest in the last couple of years leading up to Y2K, because they knew all hell would break lose if the problem wasn't fixed in time. There was military training in major and minor cities around the U.S., including tanks rolling through Oakland, CA. Actors played the parts of desperate, hungry, angry civilians during those exercises. There was video footage of it on the News and Youtube.

---------John Titor---------------

So John's grandfather didn't 'fix' the problem as it was already unleashed, but he was the source of getting the word out about the problem. The Y2K problem was AVERTED through effort and hard work!

I believe John was a real TT, and if he had not visited our Timeline, Y2K would have caused many deaths, just like it did on his Timeline.